Yellow jello

[The Hat]

I am just concerned about residual ink in the head

No worries, just fill and use as normal, it won’t bother the print head head..

 

[stratman]

Maybe the explanation could be that the Pro-100 refill ink sold by Octoink UK is not made by Image Specialists but by Prodinks for Octoinkjet? Maybe this ink doesn't react with remnants of the OEM ink?

That was my point.

Mikling has written extensively on his discovery that water itself causes the Yello Gello reaction. The rate of the reaction appears to be controlled, at least in part, by the level of dilution with water. This is why it takes several refills of an unflushed OEM CLI-42 Yellow cartridge with his Precision Color 3rd party ink before the reaction occurs - the OEM Yellow ink must reach a critical dilution and that takes longer inside the cartridge than in the bench tests Mikling did in his discovery.

So, if water is the reason for the reaction then why would websnail's 3rd party ink not react since it also contains water.

• Is there something inhibitory in websnail's ink?
• Is there something catalytic in Mikling's water?
• Is there something catalytic in Mikling's ink, either from the manufacturer or maybe Mikling customized the formula a bit (which he is known to do in the pursuit of improved function) that is not found in websnail's ink?

Maybe websnail's ink will cause the reaction if given enough time or if tested with the same methodology as Mikling's bench test. I do not know.

Websnail has stated on this forum and on his web site for quite some time that his ink does not cause Yello Gello and he has not amended that statement since. Is this true - that websnail's ink does not react? Well, we've not heard to the contrary on the forum that I recall. I am sure if people posted their issue with his ink on the forum that the old hands on this forum would know and reiterate it from time to time, and, I believe, websnail would correct his web site claim.

I also think we should give credit to Mikling for his acknowledgement of the issue with his ink, his research into why it happens, and his efforts to prevent customers from experiencing the Yello Gello reaction by providing clear information and workaround solutions on his web site.

 

[stratman]

There is another ink that is claimed to not have this reaction but when tested it does. Again the labs use standard compatibility tests and it does not display this behavior during those tests. I have another one on the table that is supposed to be OK by another lab. Careful testing indicates the lab is wrong.

Did an attorney tell you to not name the inks?

Maybe the take home here is that Canon OEM ink should be considered analogous to blood and body fluids and to use Universal Precautions, ie never first time refill a Canon Yellow cartridge without thoroughly flushing it beforehand. Alternatively, use a compatible flushed OEM Canon or a 3rd party cartridge.

Which Canon OEM inks are susceptible to the Gello reaction? According to Mikling:

"The yellow OEM ink in the Canon 251/271 and 551/571 behaves identically to the Pro-100 yellow."

(Hat tip to PeterBJ for his link)

 

[jtoolman]

That was my point.

Mikling has written extensively on his discovery that water itself causes the Yello Gello reaction. The rate of the reaction appears to be controlled, at least in part, by the level of dilution with water. This is why it takes several refills of an unflushed OEM CLI-42 Yellow cartridge with his Precision Color 3rd party ink before the reaction occurs - the OEM Yellow ink must reach a critical dilution and that takes longer inside the cartridge than in the bench tests Mikling did in his discovery.

So, if water is the reason for the reaction then why would websnail's 3rd party ink not react since it also contains water.

• Is there something inhibitory in websnail's ink?
• Is there something catalytic in Mikling's water?
• Is there something catalytic in Mikling's ink, either from the manufacturer or maybe Mikling customized the formula a bit (which he is known to do in the pursuit of improved function) that is not found in websnail's ink?

Maybe websnail's ink will cause the reaction if given enough time or if tested with the same methodology as Mikling's bench test. I do not know.

Websnail has stated on this forum and on his web site for quite some time that his ink does not cause Yello Gello and he has not amended that statement since. Is this true - that websnail's ink does not react? Well, we've not heard to the contrary on the forum that I recall. I am sure if people posted their issue with his ink on the forum that the old hands on this forum would know and reiterate it from time to time, and, I believe, websnail would correct his web site claim.

I also think we should give credit to Mikling for his acknowledgement of the issue with his ink, his research into why it happens, and his efforts to prevent customers from experiencing the Yello Gello reaction by providing clear information and workaround solutions on his web site.

Unless someone else has first claim to this, I like to claim the dubious honor of being the first "Victim" of the yellow problem!
Yes it occurred after the third top off of the original yellow cart.
Quick application of Windex directly dripped on to the yellow inlet of the print head followed wit water flush quickly cleared the partial clog and years later the same PRO-100 is still churning fabulous prints still using PC inks. I can now also flush OEM yellow carts to completely pristine sponge condition.
Joe

 

[Roy Sletcher]

From the information posted over time on this forum, and on their respective websites it seems pretty clear that the PC and the Octoink refills for the CLI-42 yellow are sourced from different suppliers, and the Octoinkjet version does not suffer from the Gello-Yellow malady.

It is hard to draw definitive conclusions given the lack of control and measured testing on these products, together with the competitive nature of their respective markets. However, when the malady first surfaced I recall a couple of email exchanges with Martin of Octoink in which he said he was unable to perceive the problem in the inks he supplied. This was a few years ago. Products are refined and change over time so it may be best to ask Martin of Octoink on the present status.

I am not convinced this is a "cut and dried" issue.

rs

 

[The Hat]

I like to claim the dubious honor of being the first "Victim" of the yellow problem!

I don’t rightly know who got caught with the Yello Gello first, but I was using CLI-42 carts back in Oct-12 in my iX4000, when it started to suffer from the Yell Gello syndrome as it became to be known...

At that time, I didn’t have a clue as to what was causing my poor ink flow problems in the yellow carts, and changing the carts didn’t seem to help much either, because the problem had then moved on into the print head where it lingered for months.

All dough the print head looked clogged and burned out, it eventually recovered and is still working today, same happened with my iP4700 when it was using the same CLI-42 carts and it also recovered.

Was I the first, I don’t reckon so, because like me many others were also having the same issues but didn’t know what was causing their problem either...
One of life’s little mysterys...

 

[stratman]

it may be best to ask Martin of Octoink on the present status.

We appreciate you volunteering!

 

[Roy Sletcher]

We appreciate you volunteering!

As I don't use his inks it is probably a moot point.

The first ReDsetters for the CLI-42 carts were supplied by Octoinkjet. I received one from his inaugural shipment and was probably its first adopter in North America.
I was using PC inks and vividly recall running into clogging problems with refill yellow, but at that time had no idea of the dimensions of the problem.

Somehow I got through it all with print head intact. My recollection is that I ran multiple wash and Windex cycles until clogging cleared. It was several months later that the gello-yellow malady was reported and researched.

That was probably four or so years ago, and that same print-head is still going strong with over 4,000 pages printed. Most of my printing is now on my Epson 3880, else would be closer to 6,000 pages by now.

Since the gello-yellow reports I have followed the swap yellow refill for a CLI-8 cart just to be safe.

rs

 

[stratman]

I was using PC inks and vividly recall running into clogging problems with refill yellow...

It was several months later that the gello-yellow malady was reported and researched.

Your claim to any prize in the Yello Gello Sweepstakes is duly noted. You will need to duke it out with Jose for a share of the prize money. Watch your back. The Hat has relinquished his claim to First Place and his Participation Trophy has been mailed.

As I don't use his inks it is probably a moot point.

Sorry, Roy. There was a vote and you won.

 

[websnail]

No need... I was brought back from my toddler-induced, semi-comatose state by a PM about something completely irrelevant so I spotted this post and it's pre-empting a few things...

A full update of various articles and things is pending but here's the short version.

We did the tests waaay back to check that the yellow ink we source through Prodinks wasn't affected and it wasn't. Nothing has changed in the formulation that indicates that has changed so we're not looking at a bad batch. From what we've been able to ascertain our ink doesn't dilute the original ink in a way that breaks down the various ingredients in a way that encourages a less satisfactory reaction. I'm not a chemist and I'm not about to pretend I understand it, much less explain it but that's the best explanation as to the "whys" that I can offer at this stage.

HOWEVER... In the past 6 months we have received a limited number of reports (ie: 3) about yellow specific issues from users who have been using the inks over a considerable timespan (ie: years) where clogging has appeared in the yellow channels.

It has taken literally years to get to that point and like everyone else here we're unsure of what factors are at play or why these specific end-users were affected where others have not commented. Naturally there was a tendancy for me to initially think "Oh *&%$ it's the jello" issue but more careful examination of the issues implies that more traditional factors could be at work as well as unintended application of things like water cleaning solutions to resolve other clogs, etc...

In some ways I'd prefer a smoking gun but we've not found anything definitive.

In terms of action taken... At first hint of a problem we decided to pre-empt rather than assume, but at present we've only done so with orders since around February of this year... That action was to include a CLI-8Y with any refill bundles, empty cartridge sets or the CLI-42Y empties on their own so that end-users could chip swap, flush and use that instead.

We were recently able to secure the necessary cartridge stock to supply all our existing customers but as yet haven't found the time to let them know. This post will at least help get that ball rolling...


Ok... so that wasn't the short version so here is the short version:

1. Jello issue may not be 100% applicable but there have been some indications that similar clogging issues may eventually surface with our Prodinks CLI-42 compatible yellow ink.
2. CLI-8Y cartridge (for chip swap use) recommended instead and supplied free of charge as standard with any refill bundle or orders containing a CLI-42Y.
3. Will supply CLI-8Y cartridge free of charge to any existing customer if they wish to switch now.

Basically I'd rather accept the chance that there's a potential issue that takes a long time to develop and provide the simple work-around than do an impression of my little one who takes stubborn to a whole new level.