Syringes & Needles : Legalities Question

[Everts]

Ebay.nl somebody is offering Hobbicolors Refill Ink Kit 4C-16 oz UW8-CMYK for Canon. What to do with the black CLI-521BK (Photo) and / or PGI-520BK 19 ml Cartridge. I see only one bottle of black ink. Can both cartridges be filled withe the one bottle of black ink ????
Somebody knows a European supplier ? the 4 bottles of 120 ml ink have only one black ink container !

http://www.hobbicolors.com/images/C-4bs.jpg

 

[stratman]

Very glad with you guys ! Through this forum I 'discovered' the German Durchstich method. Imagine .... we are next door neighbours, as I live in Holland (The Netherlands) and Germany from my village is only 25 miles from here. As I use a cannon IP4600 , I found chips that do not have to be reset, so I am going to refill the original Canon cartridges. Needles are no problem here : a close friend of mine is a pharmacist. But even so : money buys these things with on strings attached. The Dutch government finds it highly appropiate to sell ( or even give ) junkies a clean needle. My only adiction is computers, so no problem at all. Next stage : ordering the correct ink. Any advice ?

There are several retailors of bulk ink that are highly regarded in this forum. The following was written concerning the CLI-8 and PGI-5 cartridges that were the "newest" available at the time I wrote it but should generally apply for the current newest cartridges.


http://www.inksupply.com/ selling MIS inks(reported to be Ink Specialty inks)

http://www.precisioncolors.com selling Ink Specialty inks

http://hobbicolors.com/ selling Hobbicolors inks

http://www.inktec.com/english/main.asp for InkTec inks (Google "Inktec" for retailors) (List of distributors, including the Netherlands, at http://www.inktec.com/english/distributor/where_detail.asp?product_flag=OA)

Aftermarket ink from these retailors can be added to and mixed with Canon OEM ink still left in the cartridge.

Advanced User Tip - If you want the best color output then you will need to purge the Canon OEM ink out completely (see below) (or run a couple cartridges full of the aftermarket ink to wash out the Canon OEM ink), refill with one of the inks listed above, then obtain/purchase an ICC Printer Profile for your printer, ink and paper combination. You can purchase one from places like http://www.cathysprofiles.com/. Many casual hobbyists do not purchase an ICC Printer Profile and are satisfied with their color output. You'll know whether you're happy with the colors in your photos after printing out a few pictures. Much has been discussed about ICC Printer Profiles in this forum. Do a search if interested.

CAUTION: Some bulk ink retailers sell a "pigment only" black PGI-5 ink and/or a combination "pigment plus dye" black ink for the PGI-5. Make sure to get the "pigment only" PGI-5 if you want the best results, particularly for highlighting. It will cost a bit more but has the best chance of mimicking Canon OEM PGI-5 ink.


One other place to check out is http://www.druckerchannel.de/ where you can find great articles on refilling methods, bulk ink reviews and retailors, printer reviews, etc. If you need to translate German then use Google Language Tools to translate whole pages at a time (http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en).

 

[stratman]

Ebay.nl somebody is offering Hobbicolors Refill Ink Kit 4C-16 oz UW8-CMYK for Canon. What to do with the black CLI-521BK (Photo) and / or PGI-520BK 19 ml Cartridge. I see only one bottle of blach ink. Can both cartridges be filled withe the one bottle of black ink ????
Somebody knws a European supplier ? the 4 bottles of 120 ml ink have only one black ink container !

http://www.hobbicolors.com/images/C-4bs.jpg

The Hobbicolors inks you linked are the DYE-based inks. These UW8-CYMK (Cyan, Yellow, Magenta, Black) inks may be for both CLI-8 and CLI-221 cartridges as per this Hobbicolors ebay auction page - http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobbicolors-5-C...mQQptZPrinter_Accessories?hash=item3ca68cfc43.

You will need PIGMENT BLACK ink as well. This Pigment Black ink is used for printing of text only and is for your PGI-220 cartridge. If you read through the ebay link above you will see a discussion of Pigment Black ink (PMT-BK) that Hobbicolors sells.

IIRC, one of the new CLI-221 inks is slightly different formulated, but the difference is neglible for most hobbyist. If you are looking for the best color match then you need to have an ICC Printer Profile made that specifically matches your ink to the paper you will be using.

 

[ghwellsjr]

This Pigment Black ink is used for printing of text only

Correction: In general, Canon printers use pigment black ink for printing on plain paper and dye black for printing on photo papers. It doesn't matter whether you're printing text or pictures.

There are some exceptions and caveats. See this link for more complete info:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7483#p7483

 

[stratman]

This Pigment Black ink is used for printing of text only

Correction: In general, Canon printers use pigment black ink for printing on plain paper and dye black for printing on photo papers. It doesn't matter whether you're printing text or pictures.

There are some exceptions and caveats. See this link for more complete info:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=9079#p9079

You are correct about Pigment Ink being used for more than just text on plain paper. I was trying to keep it simple for Everts.

Your link was interesting reading, recording some foundational observations on your dye-based i9900 printer. But I didn't see a discussion on pigment vs dye-based ink in the thread. Maybe I glossed over it because it is very late. It does make sense that Canon would use same/similar technology, with some updates, for newer models. Why reinvent the wheel, cart and horse everytime.

I posted the following some time ago concerning the usage of Pigment and Dye based inks for the PGI-5 and CLI-8 cartridges:

PGI-5 Pigment Black Ink is used ONLY For:
- Plain Paper Test (monochrome and grey scale)
- Envelopes
- Transparencies
- Duplex Printing On Plain Paper
- Camera Direct Printing on Plain Paper

CLI-8 Dye-Based Color Inks are used anytime color is printed and is used exclusively for:
- All Photo Paper types (including when Duplex printing)
- High Resolution Paper
- T-shirt Transfers
- CD-R's
- All Borderless Printing, on both PhotoPaper and Plain Paper


We've actually had a semi-conversation about this before - http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=21118#p21118.

So, an addition to your correction? - CLI-8 Dye-based ink is used on all borderless printing for both photo and plain paper.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Opps--wrong link. I fixed it. Thanks for pointing this out.

Now that I have fixed the link, you will see that I reference your link where you posted the above information, including your correction involving borderless printing.

It is very complicated, especially since Canon uses the phrase "Fast-print all-black text" in their Print Advisor. If you select that option, then, in the next step, it limits your Media Types to Plain Paper, Envelope and Transparency. After you're done with the Print Advisor, you can change the defaults it sets up but if you leave them alone, it will use ONLY the pigment black ink which is much faster than some of the other options that involve color because the pigment black part of the print head has nozzles that cover a broader area and that is the reason it is fast.

But even this isn't the whole truth because different applications can effect the way the print operates. For example, if you take a color photograph with a .jpg extension and you open and print it in Paint using the "Fast-print all-black text", it will only use the pigment black ink and it will be fast. However, if you do exactly the same thing from Photo Studio (which came with my Canon camera), then it will not be fast and it does not use just the pigment black ink, although I cannot tell if it is using the pigment black mixed with dye colors or the dye black exclusively (I doubt it), or the dye black mixed with dye colors.

In any case, my point is that the most important consideration in determining whether the pigment or dye black ink is used is whether you are printing on plain paper vs photo paper, not whether you are printing text vs photos.

 

[stratman]

ghwellsjr:

Another informative post.

I went to your link and appreciate the work you did in figuring out duplex printing ink use. I think it is darn good stuff and think others will find it interesting as well, so I'm quoting a portion of your post for those that otherwise might not click on your link. Hope you don't mind.


Quoting ghwellsjr @ http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7483#p7483

"When doing duplex printing, the black pigment ink is cut to about one half of the intensity that it would normally print. Then, to make up for this decrease, the magenta and cyan inks are printed in the same area as the pigment black. The yellow and dye black are never added to the pigment black to make up the difference. NOTE: Recent tests have shown that this last statement is only true for 100% black. In fact, yellow, along with magenta and cyan, is blended for some shades of grey. Also, it doesn't matter whether the duplex printing is done automatically or manually, or whether you are doing booklet printing. And, in all cases, we are talking about duplex printing on plain paper."

[...]

"In order to perform the tests, I cleaned five Canon cartridges and filled them with cleaning solvent from inkjetsaver.com. After a sufficient purge, these cartridges print nothing visible on the paper which is necessary to draw correct conclusions. I then replaced one of the cartridges with a regular ink cartridge and, after a sufficient purge, printed in various modes to see if that particular ink was involved in that mode and repeated for each cartridge."

 

[ghwellsjr]

Thanks, and I also appreciate your contributions to this subject. That's how we all learn, freely sharing information.

 

[ejonesss]

i looked on ebay and they still have listings for inkjet filler needles.

also the filler needles the sharps are larger diameter and do not have the sharpened point like the medical ones have.

i looked at their rules and it did not list inkjet kits and fillers.

of course i am in the usa and using the usa ebay so the laws are different from the uk

 

[ghwellsjr]

What kind of prices are they going for? Do the needles have scabbards (rubber plugs)?