Epson ET-8550 Velvet Fine Art Paper settings uses Pigment and Dye Black

[Fried Chicken]

Jose Rodriguez points this out in this video:

Where he's quoting something Northlight Images must have published, but I haven't been able to find (and Jose didn't link in his description).

It seems the "Velvia Fine Art" Paper settings will have the ET-8550 print with both pigment and dye black inks in one print, giving a greater dynamic range and slightly larger color gamut.
I guess this speaks to the limitations of having the printer manufacturers produce the drivers and ICC profiles thus having limited scope for what they're able to achieve.

Regardless, I find this interesting. Maybe I'll get out my colorimeter and make ICC profiles using the "Velvet Fine Art" settings. It's always such a hassle to do this though.

 

[pharmacist]

This is something for matte papers. I ordered several packages of Brilliant matte paper (the one that Keith Cooper has recently tested) and I will make a profile for the VFA-setting. If anyone is interested I can share it.

 

[Epatcola]

both pigment and dye black inks in one print, giving a greater dynamic range and slightly larger color gamut.

Keith's opinion is how well VFA mode works depends on the paper. Some good some bad. The VFA mode mixes some pigment black in the darkest colors. In the few profiles I have made (using 105/106 inks) VFA produced a slightly larger gamut volume and slightly lower D-MAX. The real advantage is unlike dye black pigment black doesn't turn reddish brown under low color temperature lighting.

 

[thebestcpu]

Jose Rodriguez points this out in this video:

Where he's quoting something Northlight Images must have published, but I haven't been able to find (and Jose didn't link in his description).

It seems the "Velvia Fine Art" Paper settings will have the ET-8550 print with both pigment and dye black inks in one print, giving a greater dynamic range and slightly larger color gamut.
I guess this speaks to the limitations of having the printer manufacturers produce the drivers and ICC profiles thus having limited scope for what they're able to achieve.

Regardless, I find this interesting. Maybe I'll get out my colorimeter and make ICC profiles using the "Velvet Fine Art" settings. It's always such a hassle to do this though.

I had not seen Keith Cooper's video (or that part of his video), in which Jose Rodriguez indicated that this topic was covered. I asked Jose in the comments section of his YouTube video to provide that link.

 

[pharmacist]

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68235087

 

[thebestcpu]

Thanks for the link @pharmacist
I am not quite sure how Keith Cooper determined that both the dye black and pigment black inks were used in the VFA media setting, but while curious, this is somewhat immaterial.
When characterizing a paper with a particular media setting, printer, and ink set, experimentation and testing are necessary to see if it will meet one's needs.
Ideally, testing should include measuring not just gamut volume and Dmax but also other characteristics such as loss of tonal linearity (blocking up) and the ability to resolve detail. This would be particularly important if pigment and dye ink are used on the same paper, as they certainly have different absorbency and spreading characteristics.
Of note, though a bit of apples and oranges, Keith noted that when using the ABW mode (Advanced Black and White) and printing with VFA mode, he had less Dmax and more blocking up than when using the Matte media setting. That would fit my expectation of using some pigment inks on coated paper. Other elements not evaluated are different issues when using pigment inks on coated photo paper, such as too much ink (pooling), insufficient dry time allowed, and therefore more risk of smearing.

So instead of this being a "secret" or "undocumented" find, I see a media mode that was designed for a particular specialty paper (Epson Velvet Fine Art), and YMMV when using it on other papers. So, anytime one uses features for which they were not designed or tested, you must thoroughly test yourself. Keith's video leaves me with the impression that it is a mixed bag of results for what media mode is best for the paper tested, and I was left wondering about the resolution, with the bullseye pattern better in the Matte mode and more crushing of shadows in the VFA mode.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on what I saw in the videos, not from experience, as I use OEM papers, OEM ink, and media modes designed for both.

John Wheeler

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

The VFA mode on the ET-8550 just runs with the highest quality mode which takes a pretty long time, if you select another matte paper you have a lower quality level available as well - standard and high, I'm happy enough with the print output printed with the standard quality level.
Ink pooling is a media issue of some papers, the ET-8550 driver does provide an option to lower/limit the ink density as Epson does with other higher level printers in the maintenance/extended settings tab. It's just one slider - not a full linearization but it should fix the ink pooling nevertheless.
It's not clear if Keith Cooper used the BPC option on, and he did not reveil the actual Dmax values .
So yes - once you start using papers not Epson supported additional testing/profiling becomes necessary.

 

[The Hat]

I am not quite sure how Keith Cooper determined that both the dye black and pigment black inks were used in the VFA media setting

I don’t know why you quickly dismissed Keith Coopers comments on the use of dye/ pigment ink on some printer setting, because you obviously haven’t tried yourself !.. I also found it to be true some ten years ago..

 

[Fried Chicken]

So instead of this being a "secret" or "undocumented" find, I see a media mode that was designed for a particular specialty paper (Epson Velvet Fine Art), and YMMV when using it on other papers. So, anytime one uses features for which they were not designed or tested, you must thoroughly test yourself. Keith's video leaves me with the impression that it is a mixed bag of results for what media mode is best for the paper tested, and I was left wondering about the resolution, with the bullseye pattern better in the Matte mode and more crushing of shadows in the VFA mode.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on what I saw in the videos, not from experience, as I use OEM papers, OEM ink, and media modes designed for both.

John Wheeler

I mean this speaks to the printer controlling the ink delivery drivers, and ICC profiles needing to work around that.
When using other papers and other printer profiles, you need to select the paper type which mirrors the name of epson's OEM papers, i.e. Epson VFA or Epson Ultra Premium Glossy. I don't think it's "not as intended", unless you want to suggest using these printers with any paper otherthan epson's specific papers for which there exists a paper type is "not as intended" and/or a hack... Which would be absurd of course.

Really it would be nice if ICC profiles had more control over the printer drivers, but that could also introduce a whole other can of worms: standardization, settings, etc. Nor would the printer manufacturers necessarily be enthusiastic about giving up this level of abstraction and control, and nor necessarily would it benefit the average joe who walks into best buy, picks one of these up, and just wants prints as fast as possible.

If you look at Jose's video: to his eye the results are improved. Possibly new ICC profiles could be made exploiting the VFA paper type to take advantage of the pigment and dye ink usage.

Do you use OEM ICC profiles? I found the QIMage ICC profiles for OEM papers (and OEM inks obviously) produce significantly better results than the OEM ICC profiles. I also checked the OEM ICC profiles in colorsync on my computer, and found them to be completely identical, so there's obvious room for improvement there.