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Bronzing problem solved on the Pro 9500

Discussion in 'Printing Photos and Photo Software' started by The Hat, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Jan 26, 2013
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    I decided to tackle this problem of bronzing on the 9500 after a frank decision with Jtoolman.

    He has as you know converted one of his many Epson printers over to using clear gloss optimizer in every cartridge for the purpose of overprinting his photos which gave him great results.

    So I first decided to convert an iX4000 over to using the clear optimizer
    in the single pigment cartridge instead of the usual black ink.

    I was so impressed with the results that I decided to convert my 9500 over which has much better control.

    Here's how I went about it..

    I first printed several different colour photos including the digital dog
    and a few test samples about a dozen in all and set them aside for use later.

    I had an old green PGI-9 cartridge that was purged of all its ink and I fitted a Matte black ARC chip onto it and then filled it with the clear optimizer.

    I removed the MBK black cartridge from the printer and gave the inside of the print head a quick clean with alcohol and a paper tissue, then put in the test cartridge containing the new optimizer.

    I decided not to run ran any cleaning cycle just in case the purge unit might somehow contaminated the new cartridge.

    I used Illustrator to draw a 200 x 290 mm size box with a 75% black tint in it,
    any Application or photo editor will do the same thing, it doesnt matter which one you use so long as you only print to grayscale as I did.

    I started the setup with grayscale / normal quality / plain paper and set it to run off 50 sheets of copier this was to make sure I had gotten all of the black ink out of the print head before I could commence my test runs.

    It only took 20 sheets to remove all traces of the black ink and for it to print clear,
    I was now ready to put my test photos through the printer for the overprinting of the clear optimizer.

    I held back one copy of each print sample so I could compare them,
    just in case I'd have to increase the amount of optimizer by altering the output quality
    or increasing the darkness of my tint. (More or less Gloss needed)

    I am happy to report that it works beautifully, youd think the samples had been printed on a dye printer they were that similar, the photos are much more vibrant now and the bronzing issue is history.

    When I was finished my test prints I put the proper MBK black cartridge
    back into the printer ran a cleaning cycle followed by a nozzle check.

    Then I ran the same sheets that I used earlier to clean the print head back through the printer and after three sheets the black was back to normal again, job done.

    I have to say a big thank you to Jtoolman for guidance with my test project without his video and patience I wouldnt have tried to this in the first place or to have such a successful outcome..
     
  2. Jan 26, 2013
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Glad it worked out The Hat!

    Though the idea to dedicate a full printer or a single cart to Gloss Optimizing originally came to me from having used a 5k plus GO from Inksupply on a 1400, I then thought, why not use GO an all 6 carts!

    After contacting Jon CONE from inkjetmall, it turns out he has been doing exactly that procedure as a final steps to his very expensive B&W piezography prints that they print on site for commercial customers and highly reccomends it after normal Pigment Color printing on Papers featuring any sheen.

    He suggested I print through QuadTone RIP and prepared a special printing curve to allow all six colors ( GO ) to deposit an equal amount of GO per channel.

    By printing from a white 255-255-255 document, the same size as the print your trying to print over from PS you will apply a perfectly homogenous layer of GO that will even out all differentials and bronzing problems. On papers where pigments just lie on top, you will be able to see a ink thickness differential as well. That will be taken care of by this process.

    Works like a charm and the amount of GO is regulated by increasing or decreasing the individual channel values of the curve. So for Glossy I can lay down more GO and less for Satin Papers for instance.

    I redid the video covering this whole process as I was told by some that it was too long.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iRUoUwwSlA

    Joe
     
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  3. Jan 26, 2013
    rodbam

    rodbam Print Addict

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    Wow this sounds almost too good to be true with just one cartridge. There's one thing I'm not real clear on, Is the 75% black tint to make sure the printer only uses the MBK cartridge? I would have thought the grey might have been used in any B&W printing.
    What would happen if we used 50% or 25% black, did you test different percentages?
    Is the optimiser about the same consistency as the ink? I'm thinking about any detrimental effects on the head.
    For those of us who have the 9500 & the 9000 could we use the 9000 to apply the optimiser? I seem to have lot's of ???????????:)
    Thanks Mr Hat for leading us out of the wilderness & now I hopefully can use all the gloss & semi gloss paper on my new 9500.
    I'm overjoyed, now where do I buy the gloss optimser & in what sizes do they sell it?:)
    I could kick myself for destroying my old 9000 head with one blocked nozzle because if the 9000 can be used I could have had a spare head for optimising.
    Can I use the dribble method to refill a cart with the optimiser?
    Fantastic work Hat mate.
     
  4. Jan 26, 2013
    rodbam

    rodbam Print Addict

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    Jose, What do you think the differences in a finished print are from using the one cartridge approach to the one you're using now using all the cartridges in a printer?
     
  5. Jan 27, 2013
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    It all depends on the actual total amount of GO applied.
    When I was doing this without the help fo the QuadTone RIP, I was printing from say a RED document 255-0-0 and so I was basically printing from the Light and Regular magentas and Yellow carts. So I was using up the GO from those three carts at a faster rate then the remaining colors. I would then print s a few more from a 100% Yellow document and so I would use some of the GO in the Yellow cart. Then the Black then the Cyan and so on.
    The resulting amount or level of GO was not consistant. The RIP tells each cart to lay down a specific but equal amount of GO from each of the 6 color channels. The total amount per channel is determined by the value # you asign to each channel as I showed in the video. The amount required will of course be up to your taste as ell as the paper type, Glossy, Luster, or Satin.

    Of course, having the luxury of a dedicated printer is the best way to go for this application.

    CONE's Peizography inks come in sets that also include black tints of varying intensity and a simple Gloss Optimizer.
    So for instance if you take a 1400 for example and fill it with the CONE 5 k plus GO, you can print through a curve that will reproduce all your black to white shades, using the first 5 shades of black shades. The Curve that you use will take care of how the shades of black are mapped to corresponding shades of your image file. The GO will also be applied but at a max amount. So you will basically get a full application of GO over the whole image simultaneously giving you a reduction or elimination of gloss defferential and bronzing.

    You could also use a custom curve that will only have the channel corresponding to the cart containing GO activated. So if GO is used only in the Yellow cart, you will have all the other channels displaying a value of ZERO and the Yellow maybe a value of 5000.

    Refer to the video where I show the Curve file oppened.

    So you can get relief from these annoying artifacts by either method. A dedicated printer ( the best way ) of as The Hat demostrated, by substituting GO for one of the blacks.

    Joe
     
  6. Jan 27, 2013
    rodbam

    rodbam Print Addict

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    Thanks Jose, I can't see a spare printer coming into my life so I will be only using the one cartridge approach that the Hat did. The way the Hat did it seems to spray an even amount over the whole print so I imagine it would be an even coverage.
     
  7. Jan 27, 2013
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    OK rod I figured I would attract your attention with this idea if not most 9500 owners using 3rd party inks, The Clear Optimiser is abbreviated to " GO " as you read.

    I used the black tint for handiness sake which I will explain later, but by using greyscale to print, that insured the printer would only use that particular colour cartridge and no others.

    As Jose mentioned he used different colours to use up his GO evenly
    but because I limited the printer to using one cartridge this doesnt arise for the 9500.

    By keeping the use of the GO to one cartridge makes it handier to just swap the two cartridges and I found easier to control and keep the cost down to a minimum also.

    Had you keep your old print head from the 9000 you could have used it along with a set of cartridges dedicated to just printing with the GO and kept them in a sealed carton after removal. (Maybe !)

    To control the amount of GO that will be applied to the paper surface I used the black colour because I taught that would give me a bigger applied output and by using it as a tint
    increasing it up or down to output more or less whichever way I need it.

    When I used it on the iX4000 first I only had the tint set to 40% which seemed to output enough GO for that printer, you can also control the amounts by varying the print quality and speed,
    a software package like the one that Jose used would control the output better but there none for the Canon printers.

    The GO is a bit thinner than the inks (Lower Viscosity) as far as I can tell but didnt measure it; the brand of GO I used was from I.S made for the iX7000 pigment printer supplied by Mikling in Precisioncolor.

    You can fill any of your spare cartridges with this GO in the normal way theres no difference just make sure you have the right chip on it for the MBK position and reset before you fill.

    Happy glossy printing days.. :)
     
  8. Jan 27, 2013
    rodbam

    rodbam Print Addict

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    I just can't believe this bronzing problem has been solved, it just sounds too good to be true. You have made me a very happy chappy I can't wait to try this out. Thanks Saint Hat for making me love the 9500 again after my disappointment at seeing the bad bronzing from my latest & greatest printer:)
    If this works as well as your testing indicates you will be promoted from Saint to wotever is the next step up.
    Regards
    Disciple Rod.
    PS. I didn't ask here about purging the PGI9 cartridge because I saw your post heading about purging pigment carts but when I opened it, it was for sponge carts.
    So my question is how did you purge your PGI9 carts to make it clean enough for the GO to go in?
    I have the modified clip from Martin (Octoink) so I Imagin I can fill the cart with water & suck it out using the modified clip. Is there any cleaning agent that will clean the cart better?
    Also when we take the go cart out do we just put the MBK ink cart back in & do a few test prints to clear the head of GO?
    Thanks again Hat:)
     
  9. Jan 28, 2013
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    Purging the PGI-9 cartridge is as easy as filling it, I did post a method on how I done it, but there was some disagreement with the method I used. :he

    Try to use one of the lighter colour carts and just rinse with clean water sucking in/out with your modified clip till clean, then half fill with the GO, rinsing it in/out a couple of times and empty, then you can fill it up full and use it when youre ready.

    I didnt run a head clean before I started to use the GO, maybe I should have I dont know,
    but when youre finished just replace the GO cart with the MBK cart and do a normal head clean
    on that side of the print head and print one or two sheets using your GO template and everything will be back to printing as normal.

    Brother Rod this could be Habit forming :lol:
     
  10. Jan 28, 2013
    rodbam

    rodbam Print Addict

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    Thanks Saint Hat I will order the GO & get cracking. I'm amazed this topic hasn't caused a sensation as the bronzing is a major problem on the 9500 with gloss & satin papers using aftermarket inks & this solves it so easily.
    I feel really lucky that I have a cartridge resetter for all the Carts & now a solution to the bronzing.
    Maybe Martin & Mike should jump on this & include the option of a bottle of GO & a spare cartridge in their 9500 ink kits as this makes the 9500 as usable as the 9000.
     

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