Using micropigment ink in Canon BCI-6/CLI-8 dye ink photoprinters

[Tin Ho]

Lin, I have tried after market Epson compatible pigment based color ink on my Canon ip4000 before. I had a need that my color graphics to be waterproof. My ip4000 will not print anything using a compatible BCI-6 cartridge and after market Epson compatible pigment based ink. It printed nothing, not a single pixel was printed. I bought the ink from an ebay seller. The ink was said USA made ink.

Your cheap solution is to print on coated inkjet paper such as Canon high resolution paper. The print will be very good in fade resistance but not waterproof. It's quite archival if stored in folders. If you plan to hang them on the wall then you really have to print with all pigmented ink. Epson is naturally the only choice I believe.

 

[fotofreek]

Another possibility would be to buy the least expensive Epson printer that uses pigment-based inks and use it for the projects that require them to be waterproof.

 

[mikling]

cannonfodder, actually Epson printheads also need a slight negative pressure as well. Whether it is a similar amount to the Canon, I cannot say. Also not all spongeless cartrdiges are identical so selection is critical.

There's a reason why Epson can make the claim that their brand is preferred by the majority of professional photographers despite potential clogging issues. The key reason I believe is pigment ink capability.

 

[lin]

Lin,

I can't advise you on your idea of temporarily using the Epson pigment ink, but you mentioned getting spongeless carts for the try. This is not a good idea. The Canon printhead depends on the effect of negative pressure created by the sponge in the Canon sponged cartridge. If you try to put a spongless cartridge in the Canon printer, you will not have proper control of the ink and are very likely to be dissapointed in the results.

Some CIS units operate on Canon printers with spongeless cartridges. That is O.K. as long as the CIS unit provides the negative pressure that the sponge would have provided. I am assuming you were not writing of the use of a CIS system.

The reason I mentioned about the spongeless cartridges are because I thought the epson uses spongeless cartridge for the pigment ink. So I thought I might need to get spongeless cartridges in order to use the 3rd party pigment ink on canon if it's possible for the canon printhead to handle the use of 3rd party pigment ink on dye canon cartridges. I haven't been reading much on Epson so I am very lost when it comes to epson. And yes, I will not be using CIS system so I was planning either to refill into existing canon oem cartridges or have to get spongeless if needs be.

Lin, I have tried after market Epson compatible pigment based color ink on my Canon ip4000 before. I had a need that my color graphics to be waterproof. My ip4000 will not print anything using a compatible BCI-6 cartridge and after market Epson compatible pigment based ink. It printed nothing, not a single pixel was printed. I bought the ink from an ebay seller. The ink was said USA made ink.

Your cheap solution is to print on coated inkjet paper such as Canon high resolution paper. The print will be very good in fade resistance but not waterproof. It's quite archival if stored in folders. If you plan to hang them on the wall then you really have to print with all pigmented ink. Epson is naturally the only choice I believe.

Ohh, that goes my luck in attempting to try pigment ink on my canon dye cartridges.

Another possibility would be to buy the least expensive Epson printer that uses pigment-based inks and use it for the projects that require them to be waterproof.

Well, this is another possibility to overcome this situation. What do you think of Epson Stylus CX5300? And gosh, I wonder will it be difficult to refill Epson as I have not been reading on how to refill Epson Cartridge. This will be a dilema since it took me quite a bit of time reading up on Canon refill for me to gather sufficient courage to go into Refill ink.

cannonfodder, actually Epson printheads also need a slight negative pressure as well. Whether it is a similar amount to the Canon, I cannot say. Also not all spongeless cartrdiges are identical so selection is critical.

There's a reason why Epson can make the claim that their brand is preferred by the majority of professional photographers despite potential clogging issues. The key reason I believe is pigment ink capability.

I wonder if anyone has any luck on using 3rd party pigment ink on Canon dye cartridges. If possible, I like to use the canon cartridges as spongeless cartridges I would have to acquire overseas. However, after reading all the current repliess here as it seems the possibility is quite low.

 

[pharmacist]

The only pigment-based prosumer Canonprinter is the Pr9500 using the PGI-9 pigment based Lucia inks. Strangely the printhead is still bubblejet-based like the dye-based printers. The only price to be paid is the somewhate larger drop size of 3 pl (instead of 2 or even 1 pl on dye-based printers). So it should be theoretically possible to use pigment ink in bubblejet-based printheads.

Using Epson pigment ink in bubblejet printers is not advisable due to their composition especially made for the piezo printheads. But pigmented inks like Lucia-compatible ones should do the trick, albeit with some precautions (partial dilution with dye ink ? tweaking the firmware to cope with larger drop sizes ?).

 

[lin]

Hi Since I last posted, I heeded the advices here and had been looking around and exploring on the idea of getting used Epson Printer (older) that some seller may want to sell of at a cheaper price so that I could use for projects/stuff that I wish to have some archival ability. Still sourcing at the moment and reading a bit more on Epson printer.

I managed to find these Universal ColorFast Ink ('waterproof' ability) by chance which is said to be universal for various printer. I wonder what kind of pigment ink they uses such that they are said to be usable on Canon Printer according to the text on the packaging.



If this can be use on my Canon Printer, I might consider of getting just for a temporary usage for some archival projects. Unfortunately, the store only had the Universal ColorFast Ink 3 colors (CMY) and the box does not comes with the black one. So if I am to purchase this, I am actually missing one pigment black as a replacement for the dye cartridge CLI-8BK. Then another consideration is that the cost is a bit too high to make it worthwhile.

Another question I like to ask, I noticed also that Epson Pigment Ink is usually more Opaque while Dye Ink is usually a bit 'translucient/liquidity'. I wonder if it's this composition that makes the Espon Pigment Ink not possible to use directly on Canon Printer because Epson Ink wouldn't flow through the Canon Printhead nozzles.



Should I eventually consider to purchase the Universal Color Fast Ink (3 colors), I will be missing the pigment black, is there no way to modify the Epson Pigment Ink so that I could use it on Canon Printer?

 

[lin]

Hi I had read Smile post #4 who had success in mixing HP pigment with dye ink. And I also read that Tin Ho had attempted it with compatible Epson Pigment Ink.

However, I just want some assurance as I am not really familar with chemical stuff. My question is would it be hazardous to mix 3rd party Epson Pigment Ink with Dye Ink and use it on Canon printer since Canon uses heat to cause ink to dispense out from the nozzles. Dye ink is water-based. As for Epson Pigment Ink, I am not too sure if it's resin/solvent based and if there is any ingredients that will make it hazardous to use on Canon printer other than causing a major clog problem. Sorry to be asking such a silly question.

 

[pharmacist]

Lin,

I would only try in Canon printers using the PGI-41/51 cartridges. If the cart will get clogged beyond the possibility of repair, you just throw away this cartridge. Then have a try what the optimal mixture would be.

 

[Smile]

Lin,

I would only try in Canon printers using the PGI-41/51 cartridges. If the cart will get clogged beyond the possibility of repair, you just throw away this cartridge. Then have a try what the optimal mixture would be.

That is a very good suggestion, also these cartridges are impossible to unclog since ports are rectangular and you can't attach any syringe to them, filter is foam based not metal like on normal print heads.

So PGI-41/51 cartridges are really made to be disposable cheap cartridges, some last 2000 pages some up to 4000 - in my experience. Price is very unreasnoble color costs more then new pixma 1800 - and there are still stupid enough to buy ink instead of new printer everytime, then sell your old on internet and even have a profit instead.

 

[Tin Ho]

Lin, if you mix dye based ink with pigment based ink the ink will have characteristics of both ink. In other words it will smear as dye based ink but less severely. Besides I have serious doubt that it will work at all. The viscosity and surface tension of the ink after mixing will change and will not work. You best bet is still to print with dye based ink with Canon printers. I have been using an Epson R200 for the past few weeks and found that its text quality is far behind Canon ip4300. I tried a CX5400 belonging to a different organization of my work place. It is an Epson multi function using pigment based Dura-Brite ink. Its text quality is very poor comparing to Canon. Just print some small text. It will show how Epson lacks the resolution comparing to a Canon ip4300. Epson printers most have 60 or 90 nozzles per color. A lot of Canon printers have over a thousand nozzles per color. I tried to print at highest quality still the text sharpness and clarity is very poor. Alignment of the print head made no improvement either. So even if you switch to Epson you probably will not be very happy with its text quality despite it uses pigment based ink.