Using micropigment ink in Canon BCI-6/CLI-8 dye ink photoprinters

[pharmacist]

Until know I was allways convinced using pigment ink in dye-based printers will sooner or later cause clogging problems in the very fine nozzles meant for dye ink, like Canon BCI-6/CLI-8 based photoprinters. Today I found on internet a company called Kyson, who is actually selling pigment ink-based CISS systems for Canon printers.

I already contacted Kyson and they say they have no problems at all from customers who bought pigment ink CISS systems for Canon printers. But should I believe them ? It would be more than a dream, since this would be almost the same as buying Canon's new Pro 9500 Lucia pigment-based printer...... (except the matte black and grey ink for optimal B/W prints). This would guarantee long lasting none fading prints for decennia.

Strangely enough I can only find good replies when typing in "Kyson Vista Ink pigment" in google. I'm suspecting those single replies I found on the net from people on several fora are actually created from employers of Kyson themselves. The often single user replies and comments are a little bit suspicious.

Does someone have experience with using pigmented ink in Canon dye-based printers (in BC-6/CLI-8 cartridges) ?

 

[Tin Ho]

Pigmented ink and dye ink are so different that they each requires different handing by the driver to program differently in spraying ink to produce a photo. Apparently the Canon driver is written only for dye ink. If you use pigmented ink without changing the driver you will not produce photos with correct density, contrast and saturation. You can try it to see how it works. But you understand you may be taking a risk of damaging your print head. I once tried to fill a BCI-6BK cartridge with black pigmented ink and tried to print text on a s820D, which was a printer with 6 BCI-6 dye based ink. It clogged the black print head in almost no time. The worst is it was so damn hard to clear that I would never tried it again.

 

[pharmacist]

I will give another try to this item. Yesterday I have found a rather triggy company in Germany (obviously importing from China) delivering pigment ink, suitable for Canon, HP and Epson (????). Did someone tried to use let's say Epson or HP compatible pigment ink (for example: Durabrite or Vivera compatible ink) in Canon BCI-6 or CLI-8 cartridges ? Does this cause clogging or just colourshifts in printing, which can be corrected by using customized printer profiles ?

 

[Smile]

I have successfully tried to use hp pigment ink diluted with 20% for pigment and the rest 80% for dye Inktec ink in pixma 1000 that was relatively cheap printer so I used it for this experiment.

It works fine if you do not cross 30% boundary for pigment ink (HP 01). Don't know other pigment inks out there can be different and then the amount can be increased or ink not diluted at all. But I doubt that.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Smile,

Thanks for your reply. Is the mixture you made of pigment and dye ink looking opaque ? And does the mixture precipitate after a while ? And can you see a matte appeareance on the glossy photopaper after printing due to pigment particles ? And how large are the nozzles and printing resolution of your Pixma 1000 printer ? I want to give it a try in a BCI-6 cartridge.

 

[Smile]

Hi Smile,

Thanks for your reply. Is the mixture you made of pigment and dye ink looking opaque ? And does the mixture precipitate after a while ? And can you see a matte appearance on the glossy photo paper after printing due to pigment particles ? And how large are the nozzles and printing resolution of your Pixma 1000 printer ? I want to give it a try in a BCI-6 cartridge.

In a typical syringe that is hard to say it is opaque, the syringe is not clear plastic as you know. The mixture does not precipitate as far as I know. I shake the syringe with thme mixture for about 5 minutes that wait for a few for bubbles if any to brake before injecting into the printhead.

Yes I can see the matte apearance if you look not directly at the print but at an angle on glossy paper where there is alot of black, that effect is not always good

The printing nozzles of pixma 1000 is 5pl and has a resolution of 4800 x 1200 dpi.

I have tried the same mixture in more recent printer prixma 1600 that has 2pl nozzles and resolution of 4800 x 1200 dpi, it works fine but funny part is that it's suppose to use pigment ink because it has pigment black cartrige with integrated printhead PG-40 but if I use more that 30% for pigment ink it will not print, the failure is not printhead clogging like many here fear but the ink can't flow trough the nozzles in unison and will streak with a puddle of ink in a few places on a page while not printing anything on some areas at all.

Resolution of above problem is simple, remove some of the ink from the cartrige using a syringe and inject more dye ink, use this technique to find working solutions for your printer.

I have only tried HP 01 black pigment ink, it would be nice if someone would respond who used color ink perhaps from HP perhaps from other manufacturer. I think that the pigment ink mixture and be improved to 50%/50% but that requires a lot different brand ink that I don’t have

 

[shrey]

Hi

I use the Kyson 'Pigment' CISS system on my Canon i9950 with no problems. Installation was fun , as the instruction were bad, but I managed to get it to work. Apart from the initial clogs when installing, since then the printer has performed flawlessly. In fact I turned it on after being away for 5 weeks, and it worked perfectly.

However, the inks are definitely not pigment even though the bottles say pigment. Print on plain paper and once dry, run the print under the tap and see if the ink runs - if it does, it's not pigment. I also have a HP B9180 and did the same test - ink did not run.

Printing on Ilford Classic Pearl or Kirkland Glossy - prints faded within a few months.

The ink itself is translucent not milky as pigment ink is. They say as the pigment is *very* fine therefore it's translucent. Yeah!

Having said all that...I like the system as I don't have keep refilling cartridges.

I bought an HP B9180 for it's pigment ink prints and haven't look back. I still use the Canon i9950 for non critical work is DVD/CD Covers etc

I hope that helps.

Shrey

PS You must profile the printer with the paper you use if you decide on this system. The colours do not match Canon at all. Having said that, you could put MIS/Hobbicolor ink instead.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi shrey,

thanks for your reply. You're actually confirming my fears about the Kyson pigment ink system. It looks very shaggy if not completely misleading. As a scientist I know that colloidal solutions (as do pigment(ed) ink) or suspensions should scatter light in all directions, thus causing a opaque (milky) appearance when light is falling upon it.

Maybe I should try Canon's own Lucia pigment ink and try to mix it with dye ink (for example Hobbicolors UW-8) and refill a few BCI-6 cartridges and try printing with them. Completely waterfastness is not necessary to me. Keep in mind that HP is using 4 pl droplet size for his pigmented Vivera ink and Canon's own Pixma Pro 9500 3 pl and the Canon i9950 2 pl. If I could have a viscosimeter I would be able to measure the optimal viscosity of the mixture to be sprayed in the same manner like the original dye ink. If the physical properties are not optimal and comparable like dye ink, then this could give ink blobs when sprayed on paper: therefore the optimal properties of a ink requires a lot of expensive research. Credit should be given to the OEM manufacturers in spending the time and money to obtain those marvellous quality inks.

 

[lin]

Hi Sorry to bring this thread up as I hope to post here to consolidate the thread instead of creating new thread as my question seems somewhat related/similar. If it's not appropriate to do so or my question is completely irrelevant to this thread, do let me know and I will create a thread and delete this post.

I read & understood that it's advisable not to use pigment ink on canon dye based cartridges since the canon printhead nozzles and cartridges (BCI-6/CLI-8) are not really designed for pigment ink. However I have some document which I like to have archival or "waterproof" ability. I am wondering if I could use 3rd party pigment ink that are usually meant for espon printer on a canon printer that uses CLI-8(CMYK) & PGI-5BK. Since pigment ink tend to clog print head, maybe if I use it for a temporary/short-term measure by switching cartridges filled with pigment (on CLI-8 cartridges) and later switch back to my existing dye-colored cartridges after performing a cart purge (purge out any remaining pigment ink that may be left on the printhead inklet hole). Will this allow me to use 3rd party refill pigment ink meant for espon on canon CLI-8 cartridges? If yes, do I need to get those spongless cartridge and what I need to observe to prevent spoiling the canon printhead.

I already tried using coated inkjet paper and while the dye inks adhered well on the paper, there is still some colors that are being "washed" away. Though Quite minimal and not noticeable.



Else, would archival fixative spray be a better alternative given my case. However some fixative spray as I know can leave a coarse/sandpapery texture on the surface of the paper (as if some big particles are left on the paper after spraying with the fixative).

Appreciate any advice here. Thanks.

 

[canonfodder]

Lin,

I can't advise you on your idea of temporarily using the Epson pigment ink, but you mentioned getting spongeless carts for the try. This is not a good idea. The Canon printhead depends on the effect of negative pressure created by the sponge in the Canon sponged cartridge. If you try to put a spongless cartridge in the Canon printer, you will not have proper control of the ink and are very likely to be dissapointed in the results.

Some CIS units operate on Canon printers with spongeless cartridges. That is O.K. as long as the CIS unit provides the negative pressure that the sponge would have provided. I am assuming you were not writing of the use of a CIS system.