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Refilling Canon with OEM ink

Discussion in 'Canon InkJet Printers' started by martin0reg, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. Jun 19, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I just found out that @pharmacist did already a much more thorough test running Canon pigment inks in a dye ink printer already 8 years ago
    https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...-test-in-canon-i9950-a3-dye-ink-printer.3682/
    which may be worth to be persued further for those being unhappy with ink fading of refill dye inks. The reported scratch sensitivity would propably be fixed with a chroma opt. overprint to stabilize the surface. I did not observe it as that bad in my short test.
     
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  2. Jan 17, 2019
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

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    Update after more than a year:

    Here comes another competitor for refilling thermal printheads:
    - HP GT52 ink for HP's own series of small A4 ink tank printers
    It's C-M-Y only, without K, the same limitation as Canon's bottled ink

    ISF had it first in a comparison of Brother ink tank printers.
    https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/brother-bottled-ink-bt5000-6000.12359/page-4

    That's where I heard of this refill ink - which I put in my pixma 3000 (a C-M-Y printer) as soon as I got the set.

    The result after 1 month under the UV bulb:
    (above cheap CC Paper - below better RC paper; left kept in dark - right exposed to UV)

    bci1411ink_onCCnoname_onRCaldisihl_4wUVbulb_kl.jpg
    Canon BCI

    hp52ink_onCCnoname_onRCaldisihl_4wUVbulb_kl.jpg
    HP GT52

    this seems to be the first ink available for HP and Canon printheads with good UV resistance, visibly slower fading than my 1411 refill ink, which is fading similar to other "standard" refill ink. including the thread opener Canon GI...

    Another conclusion of these resullts for me is:
    The good UV resistance of HP shows up on both papers, cheap cast coated and better resin coated.
    While the bad UV resistance of 1411 becomes even worse on cheap CC paper.

    Please note: Like all my test prints they are not exactly profiled to the same start level of colors. So you can compare the difference of one ink on one paer, exposed to UV and kept in dark. And you can try to compare how visible or strong this fading looks, compared to the other fading. You can not compare all faded prints
     
  3. Jan 18, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    That's interesting indeed how good this HP ink is performing still at an affordable pricing level compared to other refill inks. Can you keep your test prints under the UV lamp there for another month or so to make the differences more drastic ?
     
  4. Jan 18, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    @martin0reg , didn't you test as well the Lyson Fotonic XG ink via a Dtuch ink distributor ? If that black ink is performing better in regards to fading than other 3rd party inks it may complement the CMY HP inks with a decent black ink (dye only) ?
     
  5. Jan 18, 2019
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

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    @Ink stained Fingers , yes I tried Fotonic XG, after you have told from positive experience by some other Canon user. And as far as I remmember it was a little bit more stable than "standard" refill, but with a visible color cast to yellow, profiling would become mandatory. More important, I had issues with ink flow, which reason I thought, would be the "universal" XG ink: it is one and the same ink for epson piezo and canon thermal heads. I could not proove it, but the suspicion remained.

    I think it is really visible at this state, but to continue the fading I will put the test prints back under the bulb and in the drawer
     
  6. Jan 18, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    so the search for a black Canon dye refill ink with good fade performance is still not closed. I wouldn't know at this time where else to search for such an ink, or for the genuine Chromalife ink in a larger cartridge.
     
  7. Mar 14, 2019
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

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    Update to my fading test of post #102, three months later.

    3monate_bci1411ink_onNoName-andon-RCaldisihl.jpg 3monate_HP52iink_onNoName-andon-RCaldisihl.jpg

    Even more visible result: HP is winner, by far!
    But only C-M-Y, no K, how stupid!

    PS: If you can do without photo black. get a ip3000 or the A3 model 4000/5000 (nice design)
    - IF printheads are still available....
     
  8. Mar 15, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    That's interesting results and confirming previous assumptions that these HP GT52 inks are indeed a good substitute for the genuine Chromalife inks in respect to its fading stability.
    I'm not familiar at all with the HP model range of medium/large format printers with larger cartridges which use dye inks, and whether such black ink may perform as well that good.
    Almost all HP desktop printers use a pigment black according to this list
    http://splashjet-ink.com/ink-for-hp-desktop-printers
    I'm still searching for a similar list for the larger format printers with larger cartridges
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  9. Mar 15, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I got to this list
    https://www.hpplotter.co.uk/designjet-selector-tool
    I cannot select a printer here by dye vs. pigment inks but by the number of inks - 4 - 6 - 8 ...
    It turns out that a very old model, a Designjet 5000 was/is using 4 dye inks CMYK , but only in large 680ml cartridges, that's a little bit more than I would need for a fading test......
    A current range of 4 color printers like the T120 is using an inkset with CMY dye and matte black as a pigment ink, not usable in this case .
    There is the cartridge set HP 727 more promising - a 6 color ink set with 5 dye colors CMY p(hoto)Black, a dye G(ray) and a m(atte)K pigment black , in 130ml or 300 ml cartridges. Printers like the T930 and similar are using these cartridges. I may get one of the dye black ink cartridges for a test whenever I'm running out of black dye inks - but I'm not sure that this will ever happen....
    HP is nowhere making any comments or promises about the fading stability of these inks - nothing like Epson's 'prints will last for generations to come.....' and similar.
    And there is a T7200 printer with HP 761 cartridges with CMY dye inks and a light gray dye ink and a dark gray dye ink and a matte black pigment ink, not dye black in this case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  10. Mar 16, 2019
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

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    130ml cartridges, probably the smallest with 727 ink, seem to cost around 120 - 150€ nwe.
    You can find some with expired date for around 50€
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-HP...053829?hash=item2f2baa7345:g:w2gAAOSweW5VK5Zz

    Which I would like to try out - bt are you sure these 727 series is really dye based?
    Because there are two 727 blacks, photo and matte black, which we know from pigment printers, and only for pigment photo printers, The pigment "text black" in canon dye printers are a different approach, there is a extra channell with an extra nozzle row, only for "laser sharp" text.
    But as I guess the printers using 727 inks are photo printers, I fear that these are pigment based ...= ...
     
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