Pro-100. - Still Having Problems With Displayed Ink Levels

[jtoolman]

This weekend I will print a bunch more on the PRO-100 and see how it behaves now that I've reset all the carts at least twice. If it continues to give at least 4 drops before hitting the Yellow warning, I will be more than happy.

So can it be assumed that if you replace every color that was originally DIMed with brand new ones, would the problem of Full to Empty ink monitoring be solved?
Or does DIMing right something to the FW? I am totally guessing here and you guys know a lot more than me. But is that a possibility?
Roy, have you been getting normal ink monitoring with your NEW Yellow OEM cart after resetting it?

Joe

 

[Roy Sletcher]

I am running 1.02 or so I remember, not the latest. I do remember that it is not necessary to update. So I have a firmware that is up to date that will not like DIM chips. All my carts are DIMed
No I have not tried different chips...I could later in the week. I could use my Pro-10 chips.

I don't have knowledge of exactly what Canon's issue was but Canon must have run into some issue as some change regarding reading the ink levels were made. What the problem was is not known apparently. This is speculation, but in the event that Redsetter's printer firmware did not monkey around with DIM, they never would not ever see an issue. So that possibility exists.. or they did not see that new aspect of DIM or even maybe, the programmer/engineer overlooked it. But it looks like DIMed chips need some further procedures to be restored to like new again.

Definitely, the printer/firmware asks twice before it is finally released to a final DIM. So it makes you wonder... why twice.

I'm experiencing the same thing as Roy now, so he has company. I'm not worried. The good thing is that the printer works and the optical sensor appears to function and Redsetter will look further into it in the New Year 2014.

Eventually things will get sorted out and we will know what the solution is in a month or so. I am sure they'll figure out what the situation is definitively. This is demonstrative of what new things can crop up in each generation of printer and sometimes even German engineers can overlook things or not see it coming. Let's hope they can find a solution.

Well it is always reassuring to find out that others can duplicate the same situation I am experiencing. Mike probably processes far more prints than I do, and should be able to accelerate and accurately diagnose the situation including progress reports to REdSETTER.

To summarise so far, it seems that after a DIMed reset, the chip is not resetting correctly. It appears the chip resets to indicate FULL, but fails to monitor and/or display ink usage as the ink chamber empties. On my chips they will usually indicate the first depletion level of approx 80% full, and then no further reading until the <!> empty warning.

I am assuming, with out any evidence, that the <!> empty earning is a fail safe visual indicator hard wired into the printer, and not triggered by the chip ink usage monitoring. (This has to be verified)

I have just reset my one extra OEM cart that was not DIMed which I am using for control purposes. Over the next couple of weeks should be able to verify whether this NON DIMed cart returns to proper ink monitoring after resetting.

If the solution is this simple then Stratmans comment about Occam's Razor (Spelling) is probably valid. However over the years experience has taught me that problems are rarely what they initially appear to be. Something about "Murphy's Law" being for optimists.

Happy printing - Keep the ink cartridges refilled!

Roy

 

[mikling]

Roy, Are you getting the warning as empty or low? I recall getting the low warning and that was when I refilled and reset all. So that threw out the other 7 for monitoring purposes. Since I got the warning, all seemed good. Then later on after numerous prints, the levels were too high. Then I contacted Redestter, and asked to confirm and they indicated that it should be good. I printed and waited some more and I am now waiting to print more to get the ink down for the warning. Then I'll confirm Roy's experience but at this time I'm along the same path.

 

[stratman]

I have just reset my one extra OEM cart that was not DIMed which I am using for control purposes. Over the next couple of weeks should be able to verify whether this NON DIMed cart returns to proper ink monitoring after resetting.

If the solution is this simple then Stratmans comment about Occam's Razor (Spelling) is probably valid. However over the years experience has taught me that problems are rarely what they initially appear to be. Something about "Murphy's Law" being for optimists.

Two new pieces of information have occurred since your descriptions, Roy:

1) The DIM procedure is different than on past Canon models with double warnings as per Mikling's report. This is significant in assessing causation probabilities. I trust you also had this new and unusual process as well?

2) Mikling is also experiencing ink level monitoring following DIM'ing. We now may have corroborative data sets which were unknown previously. You're not alone, Roy. Again, this is significant for assessing probabilities.

At this time the likelihood of resetter programming dysfunction is inching (centimetering?) higher and improper resetter technique lower. Still, DIM'ing may not be the root cause but the trigger.

An additional test for corroboration would be for Mikling to reset and refill all but a couple of his DIM'ed cartridges and use a couple of new, never reset OEM cartridges as controls. If the new OEM's work as expected and the reset DIM'ed cartridges still have a problem then we have further corroboration of the etiology and location of the problem. Whether Mikling should flash his firmware to the most current version, or reflash his v.1.02, is another consideration to determine a bad printer BIOS.

Trying reset DIM'ed cartridges in a different printer, preferrably one that has never been DIM'ed, would also be helpful in determining whether the data is stored on the cartridge chip or in the printer elsewhere.


Beware - Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[The Hat]

As much as everybody wants to get to the bottom of this quirky dilemma of not getting
accrete on screen visual ink levels after you’ve DIM some of the chips,
it’s not really a major problem but more like an annoying one till you get use to it.

I don’t think anybody should lose sight of the fact that everything is still working as near
normal and you can still use your printer in complete safety, so try and trust in your printer.

While running your printer without ink monitoring is a very risky business and can lead to
disaster if caught out unprepared, the use of the redsetter is a God send in comparison.

I do know one thing; the answer is not in a firmware upgrade that’s for sure,
because the upgrade can only be a 1000% advantage to Canon and -100% to the user.

These upgrades are for further restrictive controls over how you use your printer
and are aimed mainly at the users to stop them from using 3rd party inks.

Does anybody think the current ink debacle is about Canon wanting to damage your printers,
far from it; they simply want to scare the bejesus out of you so you won’t be tempted to use
this dreadful ink anymore and stay safe by using their lovely OEM inks.

Look at the facts as they stand for a moment, you have a great printer and its working
perfectly for you, TILL YOU CHOOSE to use 3rd party inks. (Somebody turn on the FAN)

Now all the scare tactics are put into play with mutable pop-ups warning of total doom
if you proceed to disable your ink monitoring and your precious printer may get damaged
and won’t be covered and will void your guarantee.

I got these same scare warnings and was driven mad by constant pop-ups till I got new chips
to restore my ink monitoring and sanity, guess what the sun came out next day
and the world didn’t end as they predicted.

This is a situation that Canon can’t afford to lose so will use everything in their (Firmware)
they can to prevent loss of sales of OEM inks, just remember that you may own the printer
but Canon own and run the software that controls it and you if you let them..

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Roy, Are you getting the warning as empty or low? I recall getting the low warning and that was when I refilled and reset all. So that threw out the other 7 for monitoring purposes. Since I got the warning, all seemed good. Then later on after numerous prints, the levels were too high. Then I contacted Redestter, and asked to confirm and they indicated that it should be good. I printed and waited some more and I am now waiting to print more to get the ink down for the warning. Then I'll confirm Roy's experience but at this time I'm along the same path.

Hi Mike,

my language may have been a tad imprecise. What I was referring to as the empty warning was the yellow background with a query mark. Something like <!>. As I recall it did not indicate empty but referred to an impending need to check cartridges. Common sense now tells me I would have been wise to have made a screen capture for reference. Unfortunately I didn`t.

However, here is what I recall, and need to test further to confirm the facts.
* The DIMed carts displayed this warning when the ink chamber was completely empty. May have been the prism kicking in as a last resort rather than a chip induced warning.
* The OEM cart I am using for control reference and has never been DIMed displayed this message when there remained about one eighth ink still in the ink chamber on first usage. It has been reset and now going through first refill to check this further.
This MAY or MAY NOT be significant.

At the moment have about 4 carts which have been DIMed, and are nearly empty, but still displaying as full.

The testing continues.

Roy

 

[Roy Sletcher]

As much as everybody wants to get to the bottom of this quirky dilemma of not getting
accrete on screen visual ink levels after you’ve DIM some of the chips,
it’s not really a major problem but more like an annoying one till you get use to it.

I don’t think anybody should lose sight of the fact that everything is still working as near
normal and you can still use your printer in complete safety, so try and trust in your printer.

While running your printer without ink monitoring is a very risky business and can lead to
disaster if caught out unprepared, the use of the redsetter is a God send in comparison.

I do know one thing; the answer is not in a firmware upgrade that’s for sure,
because the upgrade can only be a 1000% advantage to Canon and -100% to the user.

These upgrades are for further restrictive controls over how you use your printer
and are aimed mainly at the users to stop them from using 3rd party inks.

Does anybody think the current ink debacle is about Canon wanting to damage your printers,
far from it; they simply want to scare the bejesus out of you so you won’t be tempted to use
this dreadful ink anymore and stay safe by using their lovely OEM inks.

Look at the facts as they stand for a moment, you have a great printer and its working
perfectly for you, TILL YOU CHOOSE to use 3rd party inks. (Somebody turn on the FAN)

Now all the scare tactics are put into play with mutable pop-ups warning of total doom
if you proceed to disable your ink monitoring and your precious printer may get damaged
and won’t be covered and will void your guarantee.

I got these same scare warnings and was driven mad by constant pop-ups till I got new chips
to restore my ink monitoring and sanity, guess what the sun came out next day
and the world didn’t end as they predicted.

This is a situation that Canon can’t afford to lose so will use everything in their (Firmware)
they can to prevent loss of sales of OEM inks, just remember that you may own the printer
but Canon own and run the software that controls it and you if you let them..

Always good to hear from The Hat.
Our petty problems enable his print addiction to flourish.

However, I think his diagnosis at this stage may be premature, as testing and information gathering is ongoing. My real-life experiences lead me to believe that things like this are not always what they seem at first glance, and we may still find additional facts come to light as the information gathering continues. As they say in the USA - it aint over till the fat lady sings!

Dismissing the significance of the problem by saying things are near normal, is an admission they are NOT normal, which is our preferred condition. I also think the perception of how serious this is, may depend on how much skin you have in the game. Even putting aside my personal involvement, which may skew my perception of seriousness, one should consider the following:

This is a damn fine printer with huge potential in the market place. Robust, excellent quality, reasonably priced - even in Canada. It could see a large jump in the ink refilling population. A business point that I am sure is not lost on Martin and Mike. Anything which complicates refilling, or makes it unnecessarily, difficult tends to discourage newcomers. I know I have tried to evangelize refilling locally, and at our Camera Club, and have been mostly ridiculed for my efforts. Their loss not mine! This problem could be a barrier to newbies starting refilling.

However I wholeheartedly agree Canon is not our friend, merely the reseller of record for these printers. I have upgraded to the firmware v1.1 and am not aware of it causing problems at this stage, although that too could change.

I have been using this Pro-100 since Mid July this year and have put through 45 cartridges including the original OEM 8 plus 750 sheets of paper.
My expenses to date $125.00 for the printer. and under $200 for resetter and ink. Still have enough ink left for about another 50 refills which should take me to middle of next year. Do the maths based in OEM CLI-42 carts at $22 each in Canada. Not being independently wealthy I cannot afford NOT TO REFILL. If I do not refill, I cannot afford to print.

Your mileage may vary.

Roy

 

[turbguy]

...actually it's..."It ain't over till it's over" (Yogi Berra).

 

[jtoolman]

Roy so at this point you have not used up your reset OEM non DIMed Yellow cart?
Has it dropped the first amount yet?

So far all of my carts which were never DIMed are acting as they did before resetting. Displaying about 4-5 drops from full to the Yellow "!"
This has to point to DIMing.

Your carts would have to used on a different PRO-100 to eliminate whether printer and its firmware is involved. If your carts behave as they are behaving on your printer then it is in the cart chips.

My carts on your printer would then behave normally if the problem indeed lies in the DIMed followed by resetting chips.

Tonight I printed another 12 or so 13 x 19s and my Light Magenta, Gray and light Grays dropped one notch from all being full at the start of this printing run.

I will print more tomorrow and carefully watch to see if they drop to the half mark. If they do then it will be the second full run of correct ink level drops for my set of carts.

Since Mikling is also experiencing the same exact problem, I don't think it is printer based but CHIP based due to DIMing.

Joe

 

[The Hat]

Dismissing the significance of the problem by saying things are near normal, is an admission they are NOT normal, which is our preferred condition. I also think the perception of how serious this is, may depend on how much skin you have in the game. Even putting aside my personal involvement, which may skew my perception of seriousness, one should consider the following:

Roy what I said was:-

“that everything is still working as near normal
and you can still use your printer in complete safety,”​

What I meant by near normal was when you "DIM" your chips they then worked but not quite as they did before, in other words as near normal as possible and had you not done this then your printer would be working NORMAL (Not near normal).

The fact you had to DIM your cartridges to enable you to continue printing before the availability of the new resetter is unfortunate, but now armed with the redsetter you have regained your independence and ink monitoring once more so everything is back working properly again.

If you reset the DIM cartridges, refill them and use as NORMAL then when you get the Low ink warning (Yellow triangle), you repeat this process again, the fact that you’re ink levels are not visually accrete is something you’ll get use to time.

Jtoolman wisely waited for the redsetter to become available before running down his cartridges and that turned out to be the right decision for him, and now he can enjoy using his printer without the annoying hiccups caused by the DIM cartridges.

I am not in disagreement with you but I’m merely pointing out that it’s a hiccup that is easily overcome and it won’t interfere with the Normal day to day running, pleasure and enjoyment of your printer.

To test out your new firmware try running your printer again without ink monitoring enabled and you’ll then see the difference in how your printer will react to not having the proper ink controls..