Pro-100. - Still Having Problems With Displayed Ink Levels

[websnail]

Hi Folks,

Now that I've been pinged by one of the other members I'm aware of this issue but because of a huge "to-do" list I've been absent on here for quite a while.

Let's put a few things to bed with this although more in terms of information on batches, etc.. so everyone knows which hymn sheet we're on (although hymen sheets are definitely outside my remit!).

1. There's currently only been one production run of the REdSETTERs to date so all existing ones in the market will be identical in terms of programming.

2. Joe, Roy, you both got units from my first order. Given 1. it's probably not relevant but worth noting for completeness.

3. This issue is completely new to me so I'm starting behind the curve but I'll be looking into this over the next week or so.


To summarise the information I've picked up so far:

• This "could" be a firmware issue.
  
• There "could" be a rewrite function built into these printers/chips that reprograms the chips if they reach empty (Who knows, they could have anticipated the resetter).
• The cartridges have to reach empty for the issue with ink level gradiations to kick in after resetting.
• Resetting still returns the printer to a "Full" condition in all instances.
  
• The "low ink" condition still works (presumably the prism is still working as expected).

Without consulting with the manufacturers further (job for tomorrow) It's entirely possible that this issue and/or behaviour has been missed for a few reasons. For one, the printer takes ages to use up all the ink in a cartridge, and secondly this is a new observation so they probably weren't looking for it. I certainly wouldn't have been and I doubt many others would have noticed either, so very much a nature of the beast... We're often at the sharp pointy end.

Situation now not hopeless but obviously we would prefer to shake this out. We've confirmed that the resetter works and the prism appears to be working too. With the cartridges taking quite some time to hit empty it's also feasible to stay well within the range by proactive refilling.

@Roy Sletcher:
Your situation is less than ideal and I'm aware you're not in a great situation to gauge when to refill so I'll explore some options on how to at least give you a running chance. I'll be in touch directly.


As for everyone else... It's hard to be sure if this issue is going to be affecting everyone eventually but for now it seems it'd be prudent to reset and refill early as a work-around.


In the meantime I'll be in touch with the manufacturers about the issue and see if we can recreate it here with European models then go from there.


Just as a side bar, if there's any other issues I should know about regarding anything I've sold, am selling, etc... a nudge via the support channels would be appreciated as I'm having to keep on task with work so forums are currently a luxury (more's the pity!). Cheers...

 

[stratman]

In the meantime I'll be in touch with the manufacturers about the issue and see if we can recreate it here with European models then go from there.

Fabulous note, websnail. Look forward to your findings.

 

[jtoolman]

Websnail:

So far with your resetter sample.
I have done reset and topoffs.
Reset after about half empty
Reset after first low ink warning.
Reset after empty indication.
I every case I get a FULL level
Every cart so far has displayed 5 different levels from full to YELLOW warning while in use.
Full - 4/5 - 3/5 - 2/5 and then it jumps to the low ink YELLOW warning.
From now on I will refill at that warning or prior.
So for me so far the resetter is working just fine.
Would I like a more gradual ink level display? Sure but the OEM chip also displayed the same exact behavior. So for me it is operating just like OEM.
The PRO-100 I am running is FW 1.02
Joe

PS:
Forgot to add that I've never disabled the Ink Monitoring!

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Hi Martin at Websnail:

Thanks for your comments. At this stage it is far from certain that the REdSETTER is causing the problem. Unfortunately, as you say, the extended time needed to use up the ink, refill and observe the results means this will take some time to resolve.

It seems that Joe Toolman's cartridges are resetting and indicating ink levels correctly.

However, I am having problems, and my response to your summary is as follows:

This "could" be a firmware issue.
Definitely - my printer came with 1.02 and now have 1.1 Or NOT a firmware problem, all guesswork at this stage.

There "could" be a rewrite function built into these printers/chips that reprograms the chips if they reach empty (Who knows, they could have anticipated the resetter).
A possibility - especially as my carts were used several times with the ink monitoring disabled until the REdSETTER arrived. I believe Joe's REdSETTER arrived before he had to disable his ink monitoring. That could be a reason for our differences.

The cartridges have to reach empty for the issue with ink level gradiations to kick in after resetting.
The brand new OEM Carts all worked fine on first usage. There were several refills with monitoring disabled and no resetter. After reset and refill they did not deplete accurately. Going straight from full, or at best 80% full straight to <!> warning. This is consistent, repeatable behaviour

Resetting still returns the printer to a "Full" condition in all instances.
Yes, without fail. Comment has been made that these take longer to reset than earlier CLI-8 carts. I have just refilled and reset 6 carts taking great care to ensure I did not disconnect the resetter until the red light went out. Will now take a couple of weeks to see if any improvement.

The "low ink" condition still works (presumably the prism is still working as expected).
Correct, and I am assuming this is independent of the ink monitoring. A "fail safe" back stop as it were. Again you probably know more of the technology than I do. It Given the lock of graduated ink usage it could mean no monitoring of ink levels is taking place.


ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
I had to swap out a refilled yellow which was tending towards starvation, and replace it with an OEM yellow a couple of weeks ago. This will be a useful control cartridge, and so far here are the results:

* Ink level reporting 100% correct. It is showing half full on the screen monitoring, and physically is half full. All text book so far.
* The acid test will be when I reset this chip to see if it still performs correctly. Unfortunately yellow is a slow usage colour.

FINAL RESORT: - If all else fails I will ask Joe Toolman to reset a couple of my cartridges. I can send them to him by mail in a paded envelope. Assuming his is working correctly, it should help isolate the problem.

At this stage it is not a huge problem. With my normal paranoia (sp) and OCD tendencies, I visually check my ink levels frequently to prevent frying the head.

That about sums it up. Open to any and all suggestions. I still consider this situation better than No resetter and disabled ink monitoring.

Roy Sletcher

 

[The Hat]

I would suggest Roy that you just reset your cartridges, refill them and put them back in again,
but don’t be tempted to keep removing each cartridge to visually check the ink levels yourself.

It’s not necessary to check these ink levels because the printer will do that far better than you can
and more over it won’t forget too either, the prism is completely separate from the chips
so it won’t let you down trust me on that.

Happy Printing guys..

 

[websnail]

@jtoolman & @Roy Sletcher:
Thanks for the additional diagnostic information. I have to say that it's this level of empirical data testing and (more importantly) recording that makes this forum an absolute joy because most of the time there's no need to ask for details, it's just here! My eternal thanks to both of you on that score!



Now, given the new input it does look much more like the issue is limited to cartridges where the "Disable Ink Monitoring" (DIM) option has been accepted. This will undoubtedly be confirmed when other willing users (read: inspired / curious / lunatic(?) ) get to the low point in the future and reset/refills without accepting the DIM option and when I draw down one of my cartridges to the same level and DO accept the DIM option.

To be honest, I severely doubt the issue is being exacerbated by the firmware but ass-u-me nothing at this stage. If anything my guess is that the firmware issue was an over sensitivity to whatever flag/marker is being used to ID cartridges as DIM'd but that's just a guess.


In terms of options here's the skinny.

1. The resetter does still work and based on Joes input, retains full monitoring on cartridges that are reset (and refilled) before (or at) the yellow "warning" level. That appears to be born out by other users input but doubtless we'll get more data on that too.
   
   
2. To really tie this down is going to require additional empirical testing to identify which variables are indeed involved so from this point on if folks could please keep a record of the following:
   1. Which cartridges reached empty
   2. Which cartridges had ink monitoring disabled
   3. How ink monitoring was affected for each
   4. Printer firmware, OS, country of purchase, etc...
      
3. Once we've got more information we can see what needs doing, if anything.

Also, one other idea to test...
If a DIM'd cartridge has been replaced with one that has not, then returned to the printer, does ink monitoring return for the previously DIM'd cartridge?


In terms of my end, I will do what I can to run this down and try to clarify the points above but any willing volunteers who could try to recreate the variables above and report back would doubtless be much appreciated (and not just by me!)



All in all... we seem to be in a position where the standing advice is going to be (as suggested in my earlier post), that resetting/refilling is best done on cartridges that have not been DIM'd. We'll see if that expands further but I suspect (unless subsequent firmware upgrades move the goal posts) that'll be the extent of things.

We shall see...

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Martin,

Your last post summarises the current state of play accurately in my view.

It is all a matter of time now whilst we tabulate and share the data until we can reliably predict and duplicate results with these cartridges.

If the DIM feature on the Pro-100 is the culprit it could affect any future market of empty CLI-42 carts. I was hoping this market would emerge, somewhat like the availability of empty CLI-8 carts, to facilitate expansion of my CLI-42 cartridge supply, rather than buying new carts retail.

To quote websnail, "We shall see..."

Roy

 

[jtoolman]

FINAL RESORT: - If all else fails I will ask Joe Toolman to reset a couple of my cartridges. I can send them to him by mail in a paded envelope. Assuming his is working correctly, it should help isolate the problem.

I can do that for you.
Joe

 

[websnail]

It is all a matter of time now whilst we tabulate and share the data until we can reliably predict and duplicate results with these cartridges.

Indeed... That or Joe gets really bored and beats us all to the information in triplicate

If the DIM feature on the Pro-100 is the culprit it could affect any future market of empty CLI-42 carts. I was hoping this market would emerge, somewhat like the availability of empty CLI-8 carts, to facilitate expansion of my CLI-42 cartridge supply, rather than buying new carts retail.

Well, yes and no... If DIM'ing is the issue then most of the empties that will be going into recycling are likely to be non-DIM'd as the refillers (the ones who would accept the DIM) will be hanging on to their cartridges and not putting them in the recyclers clutches.

Granted there will always be the odd lemon but overall it could be worse if the DIM'd cartridges followed the Epson approach and just stopped working altogether.

 

[jtoolman]

Well since I've never disabled the ink monitoring and have experienced correct ink monitoring with virgin OEM carts as well as with those I did reset with the resetter from Martin then I would pretty confidently say that it could the DIM that is the culprit.
I only let one cart go to the EMPTY point where others were reset after the yellow warning. But still, all of them are behaving as expected.
This weekend I will print a ton more stuff with the tons of new Canon paper I've accumulated recently.

You can forget about the triplicate posting Martin. Copying and pasting takes too much out of me.

Joe