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Papers to minimise fade with aftermarket dye inks.

Discussion in 'Everything Else InkJet Printer Related' started by mikling, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Nov 20, 2017
    Redbrickman

    Redbrickman Print Addict

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    Never mind the test prints, the highlight of this thread is undoubtedly the Derby :lol: :weee:clap:woot
     
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  2. Nov 28, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    the swellable papers are now out in the environment for 5 weeks, the swellable papers are just performing great

    Swellable Ch 05.jpg
    the left patch is printed with a particular dye ink mix on a Netbit PE glossy paper, the middle patch is printed with the same inks onto the swellable glossy sample paper from China, and the right patch is printed with the Fujifilm DL inks onto the Netbit PE paper again, the top part of all 3 patches got an overprint with a gloss optimizer (I'm only showing the black patches).
    The prints on the swellable papers don't show any increase in lightness of these patches yet, and it is interesting to see that the GO overprint so far shows a similar level of improvement and protection. With these results in mind I can expand the measuring intervals and will scan the patches in 3 weeks again.
     
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  3. Nov 29, 2017
    peter D

    peter D Getting Fingers Dirty

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    This is looking very promising, thanks for the update.
    On my monitor I'm picking up a slight difference in saturation of the bottom halves of the middle and right hand patches ie those areas not coated with Gloss Optimiser. As the difference seems to have been there from earlier on with your test can we assume that it is unrelated to the impact of fading on the prints or are my eyes being deceived?

    My test (The Derby) doesn't seem to be showing anything that definite yet, the Canon Semigloss paper is lighter in the grey areas of the test prints compared to the other images but it was warmer in those areas from day one probably because of that paper does not have the same quantity of optical brighteners as the Giant Image swellable paper and responds differently to the dyes anyway.
    I added a new print to the test (The Derby) on day two that will show the effect of Helmar Fixative over-spray applied to Giant Image Satin swellable paper compared to the straight paper exposed to both light and atmosphere.
     
  4. Nov 29, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    you are right, the GO overprint slightly changes the look of saturated colors to begin with, but that's covered in the actual measurements I'm doing via the histograms , I'm measuring always the luminance of the patches, all CMYK patches before and after exposure - one scan - and always report the changes - the luminance increase, not absolute values, but here are not many numbers to report yet with the swellable papers - they are stable. I'm showing numbers in other threads - e.g. here https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...d-fading-of-dye-inks.11608/page-8#post-103957
     
  5. Nov 29, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Well the results are as what I expected based on my prior experience. I have been so busy with other projects that I have not touched the Giant papers as yet. Good to see it is turning out well and indeed no matter what the end results are, it is a giant leap forward showing what the real solution for long lasting prints not using the latest OEM dye inks. Even those who use OEM inks for the Canon Pro9000 will benefit from these type of papers. It is only from the Chromalife 100 + (Plus) that the resistance to ozone increased. My suspicion is that swellable papers with some good standard dye ink might exceed the performance of OEM Chromalife+ using standard microporous papers.
    Next summer might be the best time for this match.
     
  6. Nov 29, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    probably yes, I would expect that indeed, and Chromalife inks on a swellable paper may even reach the performance of pigment inks...that would be the Wow effect .
    The current problem is not so much the ink/paper performance but easy availability and competitive pricing vs. the current 'standard ' stuff. It would help already if that company would sell some of their stuff via Aliexpress with decent mailing rates.

    And yes, I'll redo part of the test with the swellable papers again with more sun - in 4 - 6 months from now. I would expect less UV protection by the swellable papers , but UV is most likely not the main culprit for fading prints in indoor conditions - living rooms etc.
     
  7. Nov 29, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Indeed I have naked prints in my office with the Pro-100 over 4 years old and no fading. In my residence there is hardly any ozone and UV is minimal indoors except by some LED lighting. I would expect that the trend to LED lighting will decrease the presence of UV further in the home environment.

    I'm not sure one would want to go with OEM dye and Swellable. One might accept the limitations of swellable given the economy of the dye ink. However, IMO, I would go with pigment over OEM dye with swellable any day. One only needs to investigate the Pro-10 and Pro-1000 and Pro-1 and the conclusion is clear, pigment over swellable.

    So from my perspective swellable is a solution to certain limitations of printing with refill ink. Once you step beyond that, consider the Canon pigment printers over Epson with assertion. Why....my recent experience with Epson NA indicates that Epson cannot properly repair a printer that has a printhead or mainboard replaced. I think this aspect is worldwide but I am not sure. Also Epson omits the Gloss Optimizer except in their P400 and that still has the same print engine as the old R1900. Three generations of no advances.

    Also the way that the Pro-1000 chooses to lay down Chroma Optimizer is indeed different from the predecessors and it appears to work even better than before. It's one hell of a machine for a desktop.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2017
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

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    Just to get this right - so the upper part is not the "kept in dark" part?
    This would be a surprise, I never tried overprinting, but it seems that I have to...
    How important is the sort / brand of GO, which GO did you use?
     
  9. Dec 3, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    yes, I'm overprinting the upper parts of the dye ink patches with a GO, OCP optimizer for Epson OE08200 as part of their ink sets for the R2000 etc . There is another equivalent patch set kept in the dark and used as a reference when I scan the patches together with unexposed ones and read the luminance variations.

    I did some GO testing on dye inks here
    https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...nd-fading-of-dye-inks.11608/page-2#post-97746
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  10. Dec 9, 2017 at 4:07 PM
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I got hold of a small pack of about 10 year old HP Everyday Photo Papers - semiglossy - 170 gr - QR-5451A, assumed to be of the swellable type. I did some test prints

    HP Everyday.jpg

    The left part was printed with standard printer settings - it just is unusable, it shows heavy ink puddles , the right part was printed with much reduced density. The feel of this paper was not sticky on the surface at all but rather dry and uneven, and this even after the printing. I have the impression that the absorption capability of the coating is gone over the years , it just hardened out and is not usable anymore, it is definitely not a swellable paper anymore. This effect may pose a risk to other left over old paper packs of this type which should be tested prior to use those.
     
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