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Papers to minimise fade with aftermarket dye inks.

Discussion in 'Everything Else InkJet Printer Related' started by mikling, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Oct 13, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    One of the nastiest enemy of dye inks is an oxidizing agent in the form of gases. Typically this can be ozone.

    The best way to prevent oxidizing is to seal the substance from the oxidizing gas. Photopapers that did this used to be available about 15-20 years ago. Back then pigment ink printers were not around and standard dye inks were offered even by the OEM such as Canon and Epson and HP. So to protect prints from fading, the premium photo papers were in a category called SWELLABLE PAPERS.

    These papers worked by having a thin gel layer that allowed the ink in dissolve into the gel and when the gel dried, the ink was sealed gas tight inside the gel protected from oxidizing gases such as ozone.

    The downside of these type of papers was that they took a long time to properly dry. They are NOT INSTANT DRY at all. After drying, one can test whether on not it is properly dry by looking from the side and seeing if any of the surface is still "raised" or swollen.

    The other downside is that since liquid is readily dissolvable on the surface, one must prevent ANY liquid to fall on on them including droplets of water. After drying, these prints should always be placed behind glass to prevent accidental liquid spills spray on the print. Even speaking in front of the print should be avoided.

    The last two manufacturers of swellable papers as far as I know was Fuji and Ilford...who made the HP Premium Plus glossy. ( Not the same as the current HP Premium Plus Glossy which is NOT swellable)
    You can test swellable paper by slightly moistening the tip of your finger and testing to see if it is tacky when placed on the photo paper. If it is, then you have swellable paper. If not, then it is not swellable.
    Ilford's line of swellable papers are ALWAYS classified as CLASSIC. If there is no CLASSIC on the box, then it is not swellable. So SWELLABLE = ILFORD CLASSIC. Got it? Remember these papers were discontinued about 4 years ago or more, so any stock is older and just what is remaining.

    Seeing that many are refilling top photo printers which are dye ink printers, we would love to be able to create prints with these papers without fear of fade. Well, there is a solution. I don't know if the following links still have SWELLABLE PAPERS but give it a shot and see.

    Swellable papers are also typically high performance from a color standpoint as well. They are very linear and profiles beautifully.

    GLOSSY - These are very high gloss and when dry look like glass.

    https://gosselinphoto.ca/en/ilford-ilford-galerie-classic-gloss-paper-25-sheets-8-5x11-ig1982309
    https://royalphoto.com/en/spec_sheet.html?catalog[name]=Ilford-Galerie-Classic-Gloss-Paper-8.5x11''-(250-sheets)--Paper&catalog[product_guids][0]=1208974
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sealed-Ilfor...138186?hash=item5b3ef3064a:g:TGEAAOSw5cRZLGt4
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ILFORD-GALER...230221?hash=item284231788d:g:DoYAAOSwqu9VLqJe
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ILFORD-GALER...230228?hash=item2842317894:g:DoYAAOSwqu9VLqJe

    PEARL
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00009R6A0/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new
    I love the look of the Ilford Pearl CLASSIC.


    You might find some on other sites and even at some flea markets as these were discontinued and cleared off the shelves many years ago...just when the instant dry and pigment ink started to take precedence.

    I have some B&W reproductions of old family images printed over ten years ago on the Ilford Pearl CLASSIC and after ten years - zero fade and color shifts. I can't say you'll get the same results but these papers do the job well. Wish they still made the stuff.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  2. Oct 13, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I can very much confirm @mikling 's comments about swellable papers, I had one of such papers tested a while ago https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/which-pigment-ink-for-epson-1500w.9323/page-19#post-92490 the fading performance is much better than of any other glossy papers. The only problem I have with my paper is the surface - it does not look very well so I don't use it other than for some tests.
    There is a referral here https://www.specialistinks.com/il-classic-pearl.php to a Marrutt paper as a replacement https://www.specialistinks.com/media-265pps.php 'uniquely coated....' but it does not specifically classifies it as a swellable type.

    There is a Chinese company offering swellable papers
    http://www.bdgiantimage.com/en/products_view.asp?id=45 but no details like pricing etc are available.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  3. Oct 13, 2017
    palombian

    palombian Print Addict

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    I once bought two boxes of 240 A3 pearl paper about 300g made by a Swiss factory (for a ridiculous price).
    Ironically I used it for pigment ink since it was more forgiveable on gloss differences in particular with the (old IS) red ink ;).
    The profile I made was 100% the same as Ilford Smooth Pearl (wich was at that time produced in Switserland).
    Will try this with dye ink !
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  4. Oct 13, 2017
    pharmacist

    pharmacist Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Why not combining swellable with microporous surface ? So the surface is microporous, allowing the ink to penetrate the upper surface and than the ink can sink into a gel based cavity. The paper is instantly dry to the touch and the swellable polymer can protect the dye molecules against fading.
     
  5. Oct 13, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    The chinese paper ISF refers to might just be such a hybrid. The description about the performance is exactly like what I found years ago.
    Isn't it a shame that just when we have the printers to use the capabilities of the paper, they're gone.

    Who's gonna bring the chinese paper in and resell in small quantities? The popular paper mills are not touching swellable because of the limited market and all the printer guys will not touch it because it only promotes the use of aftermarket inks.

    Anyone who finds a source should keep this thread alive.
     
  6. Oct 13, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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  7. Oct 14, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I contacted this Chinese company for a distributor in Europe and got this response:

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    I am Wei Yu,sales director of GIANT IMAGE. We are professional inkjet media supplier from China.

    Further to Swellable inkjet paper,we don't have specific distributor in Europe.If you don't have big quantity,we can send paper to you by DHL.You can get our wholesale price and we will receive amount of paper and freight by our PayPal account.

    Please be informed Swellable paper is not water proof.

    I am looking forward to hearing from you.

    Best regards

    Wei


    That indicates to me that such swellable papers are apparently readily available in China, and I may consider to ask them to send me some samples in A4 format in the next time.
     
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  8. Oct 14, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    I will definitely be contacting them as well and my search online and discussion with a customer has yielded a very very interesting find. Something that definitely would be of interest to Pro-100 refillers who are plagued by ozone or simply want to hang framed prints for a long time.

    Keep tuned.
     
  9. Oct 14, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    The link by specialistinks.com to a Marrutt paper - in my thread comments above - as a substitute for the Ilford swellable paper is wrong, I got feedback from Marrutt, their paper is microporous, water resistant and suitable for dye and pigment ink printers which does not match at all with a swellable paper. I have no doubt that it is a premium paper overall but just not with the specific properties of the Ilford paper.
     
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  10. Oct 14, 2017
    pharmacist

    pharmacist Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Actually this type of hybrid swellable/microporous paper can be used for both dye and pigment ink as well. The instant dry to the touch is a big advantage compared to normal swellable papers and this might be just a thought: the swellable sub layer might be advantageous for levelling out gloss differential of pigment ink, as the pigment particles are also incorporated into the swellable layer after a while.
     
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