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Papers to minimise fade with aftermarket dye inks.

Discussion in 'Everything Else InkJet Printer Related' started by mikling, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Apr 18, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    that's interesting to hear that there is still interest in these swellable papers; I must admit that I didn't pursue these papers any further because transporation cost was not in relation to the cost of the papers. I concur with @mikling 's findings that the Satin version was the most acceptable one but that's a matter of personal preference as always in this case. The company in China still is offering these papers
    http://www.bdgiantimage.com/en/products_view.asp?id=45
    but is listing only the glossy and luster type of surface, the satin version is not listed anymore.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  2. Apr 18, 2019
    mikling

    mikling Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    On the Ilford side, AMPLIS store still has some CLASSIC series papers which are beautiful papers

    https://store.amplis.com/collections/ilford-galerie

    Unfortunately, they will only ship to within Canada because of distribution "rights" issues are limited to Canada. They are not allowed to ship to the USA. I might be able to help some folks out if they choose to want some great papers for selected prints. The Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl is an excellent paper.
    The GLOSS variant is very smooth with a dramatic wet look. Both papers will produce finishes that no pigment ink printer can get close to. Remember swellable papers must be put behind glass to prevent damage from moisture.
     
  3. Apr 18, 2019
    peter D

    peter D Fan of Printing

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    Thanks Mike for your update on the Baoding Giant Image swellable papers.
    I don't recall being offered Pearl paper by the company when I ordered two rolls, one of Gloss and one of Satin.
    I would like to draw to the attention of any reader thinking of using these papers to the last post I made over 12 months ago on the 30/03/2018 (see above) regarding the sensitivity to high humidity during storage.The Gloss paper seems to be particularly susceptible and will show the printer roller imprints on the finished print along with the inability to absorb ink.
    The manufacturer recommended using the paper as quickly a possible when he learned about the humidity of my location right on the coast.
    Once the paper has been printed on this phenomenon is not a problem but this is not a waterproof paper and damage is severe if water droplets reach the surface of a dried print. Spraying with a
    lacquer based"fixative" spray for artwork (I use Helmar) is a viable option if the prints are going to be handled a lot (family photos for example). I find the gloss paper is slightly semigloss when the fixative has dried and that gently polishing the surface with a soft cloth can bring back the gloss to approximate the HP Premium Plus (swellable) soft gloss appearance.

    I store the paper rolls inside rigid plastic tubing on a system (spider) that holds them clear of the inside surface. Several bags of silica gel are included in each tube which are plugged at the ends.
    As for the cut sheets I now use thick polythene bags with small silica gel bags scattered inside to try to keep the paper dry.

    Thank you Mike for offering an upgraded inset for use by Pro 100 dye print fans, I'm looking forward to trying it along with your new profiles for Boading swellable paper. In the meantime I find the your profile for HP Premium Plus glossy swellable is fairly accurate for these papers as a generic option. It also seems to be successful with Baoding swellable paper (Gloss) when Canon Pro Platinum is selected as the paper type when I'm using Canon's Studio Print Pro as a printing app.
     
  4. Apr 19, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I found one last sheet of this Chinese swellable paper, the glossy version and ran a quick profile with it. The paper is extremely sensitive to the touch, even more directly after printing, you only can touch it at the edges to handle it. The glossy paper apparently does not take that much ink, I printed the patch sheet with an L1800 and the Epson 106 dye inks, the driver setting Ultra Glossy puts too much ink on the paper, since I'm using just a small patch layout I could do another print with the Paper Glossy setting in the driver. Since this is Epson related you need to test which settings are the best with your printer. The paper does not have a barrier between the coating and the paper base so the solvent migrates down and causes a slight waviness of a print. I'm comparing this profile against the profile for the HP Premium Glossy swellable paper which @mikling has loaded for the Pro-100 and the current ink set here
    http://www.precisioncolors.com/PC42G_ICC.html

    Swellable Papers Comparison 1.jpg

    The green volume shows the gamut for the Chinese paper with the Epson inks, the red volume for the HP swellable paper, this is the cut at the L*=50 luminance , both volumes in total are virtually identical - within 1% - but the different inksets show some gain here or there.
    This is the look at a darker range at L*=20

    Swellable Papers Comparison 2.jpg

    Here are some differences visible as well between these papers and inksets which color ranges and saturations are covered, the HP paper with the Canon ink shows a black level of about L*=4 which is very good already, the Chinese paper with the Epson 106 black features a black level of L*=0.9 as low as I never have measured before.
    @peter D describes in his entry above the additional steps he takes to protect the prints, acctions like that are absolutely necessary with this glossy paper, it is not usable as a universal paper and needs special handling care.

    I found as well a half sheet of the silk/satin type and ran a profile as well, it looks pretty much identical to the one shown above , but the surface is more forgiving, not as robust as other papers today but better than the glossy one.
     
  5. Apr 19, 2019
    peter D

    peter D Fan of Printing

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    I'm very grateful for the this post from Ink stained Fingers as it gives me a clue to one part of the puzzle I've encountered printing on the Baoding Gloss Swellable. If it is quite ink volume sensitive I'm now tempted to review the closing comment in the previous post I made regarding the "paper type" selections that I've tried when printing on it using Precision colours inks and their generic profile for HP Premuim Plus Glossy Swellable paper.
    I suspect Mike's new profiles for the Boading papers might work better than his HP swellable paper profile that I've been using to date.

    More on this when I've spent some more time investigating the best options.
     
  6. Apr 20, 2019
    mikling

    mikling Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    I'm looking at a test print with the HP Swellable and the linearity the gray ramps is really nice ( Excellent) as compared to normal RC microporous papers. I won't bother to scan because I am sure the scanner is not as linear.
    This is an aspect that the gamut volume does not show and it is only in the latest generation of Canon Pro Printers that they stepped up their game.
    The dot control on swellable papers is superior leading to the above aspect.

    Even if you put the best butter on the picture, the ramps won't be as smooth! I'm kidding but I'm not. I love these swellable papers on the Pro-100. I'm lucky I still have over 25 sheets of 13x19 and 50 sheets of 11x17 that I picked up in a flea market over a decade ago for a pittance. ( I suspect they were clearing them out and some were returns because.....they took too long to dry and not waterproof!

    Archival? for sure these will outlast me guaranteed and the outstanding Image Quality. It's really too bad HP and Ilford stopped making these papers....at a time when printers have finally improved enough to really show what these type of papers can provide in terms of Image Quality.
     
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  7. Apr 20, 2019
    peter D

    peter D Fan of Printing

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    I have one unopened 20 sheet packet of HP Premium Plus High Gloss swellable paper left that I purchased some years ago.
    It is a 280gsm paper made in Switzerland and according to the packet description is optimised for HP inkjet printers but not recommended for HP 38 (pigment) cartridges. The previous box had the paper enclosed in a medium thickness polythene bag
    There is no claim on the front of the packet that is is instant dry or water resistant and the "suitable for all inkjet printers" statement with logo is missing from the bottom LHD corner.
    I've assumed that it is swellable paper as so far prints made on it have stood up well to fading issues. Sadly I can no longer find anything like it for sale in New Zealand.
     
  8. Apr 23, 2019
    pharmacist

    pharmacist Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Is it technically possible to produce a microporous paper in which the micro cavities are filled with the substance in swellable paper, so it becames immediately dry to the touch after printing and the gel substance enhances the resistance against gasses and UV ? I think this way the bronzing and metamerism with pigment ink is drastically reduced as the whole droplet with pigment particles inside is absorbed through the gel base acting like a gloss optimizer.
     
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  9. Apr 23, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    O.k. - great - just get a manufacturer - and the PK members here will buy the paper from you.....
    I'm not aware of any supplier of such papers in Germany at this time
     
  10. Apr 23, 2019
    mikling

    mikling Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    I would say it is not that the gel would be in the cavities but that the RC pores will need to sit above the gel. Having the gel in cavities will not really provide any more benefits since the instant dry and water resistance properties are an effect BELOW the RC layer.
     

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