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Gloss optimizer and fading of dye inks

Discussion in 'Epson InkJet Printers' started by Ink stained Fingers, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Apr 15, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I had my experience with Canon printers starting last millenium - like S7000 - I565/550/865, IP4000/5000 and the last one the IP4200, they all failed with B200 and alike errors, I still remember all the Canon codes for the final exit, print quality was between good and excellent but the frequent failures let me switch to Epson printers. They have their own falladies but not catastrophic break downs.
     
  2. Apr 15, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    I have to agree with you, Canon printers do tend to lose their heads when you don’t follow the rules properly, but that’s what makes them that bit more challenging and exciting.

    I found Epson printers to be more wayward and uninteresting, something like owning a tortoise... :confused:
     
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  3. Apr 21, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Another week is gone, and the targets did about nothing else than fading....with and without GO overprint. Here is an update:
    Sihl 14d.jpg
    That's the Sihl/Aldi paper after 14 days, with and w/o GO, clearly visible, the right black bar is the unexposed one for comparison, the GO makes a visible difference, it looks very similar on some other papers - Netbit etc.
    I'm measuring the luminance of the color bars with the histogram function of the old PaintShop Pro 9 which let me read out easily the L value of the resp peaks
    Histogram.JPG
    These are the black areas of the non-GO section of the image above, with the exposed and unexposed black bar - the darker black reads an L= 37, the exposed peak L=60 which makes a raise by 23 within 2 weeks. This compares to the GO protected areas - the dark level is L=33, the exposed area with L=44, a raise by 11. I could do the same exercise with the other colors, the trend is the same, the GO overprint slows down the fading, by more then 2x. That's with non-name inks, and such fading still is visible after a few weeks - cheap inks cannot be brought up to the performance of the Fujifilm DL inks.
    Three of the papers used in this test are PE photo papers and perform quite similar in this respect, I did some more detailed tests about 2 years ago with various papers showing their difference.
    One paper tested here is a cheap cast coated glossy photo paper, without the PE layer, the back side is paperlike, you can write and print on it. The black level is not as good on this paper as on the PE papers, the fading goes faster, and there is barely any difference between the Go and non-GO areas on the prints, cheap inks on a cheap paper - you get what you pay for - such prints are better kept in dark storage, and I doubt even their long term performance in the dark and would expect color shifts over time.
    I have a working assumption that the GO does not so much protect against UV but more against ozone in the outside test environment, I'll run another test with this cheap LS180 Labelseek paper.
    Pigment inks may perform completely different - the (organic) pigments are covered/encapsulated one way or the other which provides a much stronger UV filter, and most likely as well a very good shield against ozone, so an additional GO overprint may not give any more protection n this respect.
    And with these results so far I'll do the same test with the Fujifilm DL inks as well - with and w/o GO overprint, and let them fade - which will take some more time to see the effects.
     
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  4. Apr 21, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Well, the inkjet printer prints by placing dots on the paper surface. No matter how you apply GO short of a roller or spray it will leave uncovered surface area. It matters not what color was chosen. If you need a better coverage ratio, you might want to make multiple passes with a GO cover image each with an offset but again there is no guarantee of complete coverage. Remember inkjet = intermittent dots. Not a continuous spray. Dots are "close" but not complete.

    GO optimizer was meant to fill in areas where there is no ink as opposed to covering the whole print, which as described above is still not possible if it was applied with an inkjet printer.

    So keep these points in mind when experimenting with GO.
     
  5. Apr 21, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    oh yes, that's an experimental off-purpose use of the GO to see whether it has any effect and how much .
     
  6. Apr 22, 2017
    oroblec

    oroblec Printer Guru

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    This experiments is huge, but ehat means go ?? i'm lost there , at the end can tell me the diference of those paper and will be the best choice cause the result can give us some advices, i make albums for the family i would love they last long time.
     
  7. Apr 22, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    GO or Glop - Gloss Optimizer or Gloss optimizer - a clear liquid used by Canon and Epson in some printers - they either call it Gloss Optimizer or Chroma Optimizer ins the Epson P400 or Canon Pro 1 or Pro-1000 and larger formats. It is supposed to reduce pigment ink typical effects like bronzing and gloss differentials to the unprinted paper areas. Using it together with dye inks is not what Canon or Epson are doing, it is a test whether and how much effect this liquid has to the fading of dye inks.
     
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  8. Apr 22, 2017
    oroblec

    oroblec Printer Guru

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    Now i understand thanks.
     
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  9. Apr 28, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I observed last year during those ink tests that the outlines of a piece of scotch tape on the backside of a patch sheet became visible on the front side and impacted the fading of black ink. I did not persue that further at that time but did a little test now and placed some pieces of scotch tape on the back and front side of the black color bar
    Fade LS180 1w-3.jpg
    1 - the uncovered black on a LS180 cast coated paper after one week of exposure
    2 - a piece of scotch tape on the front side showing the shielding effect of such plastic cover, probably similar to the effect of lamination
    1 - the uncovered black area
    3 - a piece of scotch tape on the back side
    1 - the uncovered black area
    4 - a piece of scotch tape on the front and back side

    section 3 indicates that there is some (gaseous) agent permeating the paper from the back side and contributing to the fading on the front side, this agent - probably ozone - is blocked here by the scotch tape, the effect is not strong, so the main cause for the fading is most likely the UV radiation , and plastic films are quite a good UV barrier overall. But this ink is fading quite fast, as well under the plastic film , lamination or similar will not protect a print with this ink in the long run, it just delays the fading somewhat.
     
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  10. Apr 28, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    I tend to agree it is inevitable that dye ink will fade fairly fast but it is a small price to pay for been able to just print away without having to worry about the cost of the ink, now if we could only have the photo paper deals they got in the US, then we’d be cooking with gas...
    If I get a chance I might laminate my paint test print in dye ink and leave it to cook for the summer..
     
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