Hobbicolors Pigment Black w/ Mx860... Will it bleed?

[The Hat]

ghwellsjr

I print mainly in text and graphics so I always work in CYMK.
I would only use RGB in any photo that I print.
RMM you are correct..

 

[leo8088]

leo8088 This latest picture I have posted is all done using pigment inks from image Specialists.
Printed on plain copy paper in standard quality, so its text on coloured background together, then I tried it with two passes, colour first and then text got the same results.
I really only have to use all pigment inks for outside posters..

The Hat, your latest print is done with all pigment based inks so you naturally have no bleeding problems. The issue was printing graphics with dye inks but with pigment black ink for the black text in the middle of the graphic. The black text ink bled because of incompatibility with the dye inks adjacent (probably no spacing in between) to it. Pigment based inks are not water soluble. Pigment particles are suspended in the ink solution. But dye inks are colors dyes dissolved in the ink solution. When the pigment ink is printed on the paper the pigment particles simply accumulate on the surface of the paper. THe dye ink works differently. Since the dyes are dissolved in the ink when the ink is printed on the paper the paper absorbed the ink. When both pigment ink and dye ink are printed on the paper adjacent to each other the pigment particles accumulated on the paper surface collapses and flows because of the presence of dye ink solution. This is the cause bleeding of the pigment ink. WHen you print with all pigments or all dyes you won't have this problem.

Sorry, if this is not quite how it should be explained. Pigment ink and dye ink may work fine together only if a right medium is used. Or they don't work together well at all. It depends on how much bleeding there is and how you will tolerate it.

 

[The Hat]

leo8088

I did up two more pictures for you to see the relation between the dyes versus pigments.
One is dye on dye background and the other is pigment on dye background.
The samples were printed at the same time (one pass).
So taking at all three together and then picking one, it doesnt matter they are all completely acceptable for the type of market there intended for.

lin wrote: - when viewing at a reading distance

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[The Hat]

leo8088 Wrote :- Sorry, if this is not quite how it should be explained. Pigment ink and dye ink may work fine together only if a right medium is used. Or they don't work together well at all. It depends on how much bleeding there is and how you will tolerate it.

I decided to put one more picture in to show what happens when dye meets pigment head on.
I used the original shot which was all pigment colour/black done together on the pro 9500, I marked that no.1.
Above that is a second pass marked no.2 done on the ip4500 using Kmp pigment black only on top of the original.
Finally the third pass again done on the same original on the ix4000 using FotoRite dye black only.
Now if you look at it carefully there is a difference in quality (bleeding) in the shot, But again I think while getting a bit hairy therere still acceptable.
It is much better to print using dye over dye or pigment over dye, than trying to put dye over pigment as demonstrated in the picture.
You can see from this shot that it is better to print the background and text together rather than trying to do them separately.
This print was done on bog standard copy paper (printer standard quality mode). it is possible to get much better quality by improving both the paper and printer quality..

 

[leo8088]

Thanks for the excellent demonstration, Hat. To save time on making multiple passes I would rather print this kind of graphic in photo printing mode. Graphics is a special type of photographs and they should be printed by the way of printing photographs. Inkjet printers are designed for such printings. Inkjet coated paper are cheap and available everywhere. There will be no bleeding whatsoever. It is a misunderstanding to think that by printing with pigment based ink the text can be razor sharp like lasers. No, there is a distinct distance still. It's not because of the pigment black ink that can not be razer sharp it is the precision issue associated with inkjet printing. Bleeding does make it worse. I would print graphics in photo mode.

 

[The Hat]

leo8088

I merely did multiple passes to demonstrate the results of putting text down on an already dried pigment coloured base on a cheap plain paper. By printing pigment ink down on top of coloured pigment ink and then dye ink done the same way, the results showed that even doing it that way it turns out quite acceptable to the eye.
Pigment inkjets do as good a job if not better than a colour laser in the text sharpness dept.
The only time a laser will beat the pants of the inkjets is when it is put up against a postscript laser printer.
Using Indesign, Illustrator or Quark Xpress the preferred option for printing is to convert to PDF not Tiff, because a Tiff would be a bridge to far..