German "Durchstich" refill method for the PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges

Beaker

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What is the reason for drilling the hole in the sponge end of the cartridge?
Would a hole from the side at the tank end not do just as well if taped over when the sponge had soaked up the ink?
 

The Hat

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Beaker said:
What is the reason for drilling the hole in the sponge end of the cartridge?
Would a hole from the side at the tank end not do just as well if taped over when the sponge had soaked up the ink?
You can very well experiment with your own cartridges and put the hole in many places but

This method of refilling has been tried and tested and the best position for the hole is the current position as shown in the very first thread.
A hole in the side of the cartridge however would make it extremely hard to get the needle tip into the reservoir side of the cartridge.

You can if you wish use the original refilling method of drilling a hole in the top of the reservoir.
 

Beaker

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The Hat said:
A hole in the side of the cartridge however would make it extremely hard to get the needle tip into the reservoir side of the cartridge.
My side hole would have gone straight into the side of the reservoir end of the cartridge...........I haven't got a long enough needle (syringe tube) to go the distance through the sponge from the end

The Hat said:
You can if you wish use the original refilling method of drilling a hole in the top of the reservoir.
However I think I will try and remove the filler sealing ball from the set of OEM Cartridges which my sister bought me for Xmas (when they have been used) in light of another comment you made

The Hat said:
From....The BEST Canon printers, the POOR Canon printers for refilling"......

Just a cautionary note for you, the jet Tec prefilled cartridges are great to use
instead of expensive OEM cartridges and work pretty well too, BUT

They are designed to work just the once and when empty to be dumped in the bin and then purchase new ones,
so if you intend to refill these cartridges be aware that they can and will cause you big problems sooner rather than later.
Thanks for all the help and advice.
 

The Hat

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As you were on this post of the German refill method I assuming wrongly that you were referring
to this method of refilling and not the original top filling method at all, sorry.

In that case dont attempt to put a hole in the side of your cartridge
as it will be a disaster for both you and your printer.

Here is a link to the top filling method that should help you understand the rights and wrongs of this method.

Happy Refilling.

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6264
 

pebe

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Beaker said:
What is the reason for drilling the hole in the sponge end of the cartridge?
Would a hole from the side at the tank end not do just as well if taped over when the sponge had soaked up the ink?
When using the Durchstich method, I found difficulty in getting a straight path for the needle into the transfer port. So I experimented with filling from the bottom, because there is almost zero pressure across the sealing plug and I thought it should be possible to maintain a good seal.

There is only about 1mm clearance between the bottom of the cartridge and the frame of the printer, so I found a source of small rubber plugs with a 3.1mm body and a shallow top. I driiled a 3mm hole in the bottom midway between the transfer port and the IR prism. The plug was not a tight fit but I thought it was adequate.

It was easy to fill and when turned the right way up there was no leak. When the cartridge was fitted I could feel that the top of the plug was being compressed so had no further doubts about leaks. All went well until it was time to refill the cartridge, but when I removed it, it came out minus the plug which was firmly stuck to the frame. A good job the cart was empty!

So I bought some empty carts from Octoink and reverted to top filling. I had purchased some coloured plugs with tabs on them but they were a pig to fit I needed some sort of tool. Then I found that a small drawing pin (thumbtack?) with a pin of 6mm in length would go into the 1mm hole in the plug and it could then be easily pressed home.

Since then, I have often wondered if the bottom fill method would have been OK if I had used duct tape instead of the rubber plug.
 

Grandad35

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pebe said:
Since then, I have often wondered if the bottom fill method would have been OK if I had used duct tape instead of the rubber plug.
This subject is off-topic for this thread, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.
1. Duct tape on polypropylene to seal against a liquid containing surfactants (ink) is an unusual choice to guarantee leak free operation. It works better on the top surface where contact with ink is only occasional. The risk/reward ratio doesn't seem favorable.
2. Bottom filling implies that the cart is held upside down while filling. Top fill allows the sponge(s) to absorb additional ink beyond just the ink in the tank, and puts more ink into the cart when refilling.

What's the benefit of bottom filling over top filling?
 

pebe

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This subject is off-topic for this thread.........
Yes, I realize that, but I was attempting to answer Beaker's query.

1. Duct tape on polypropylene to seal against a liquid containing surfactants (ink) is an unusual choice to guarantee leak free operation. It works better on the top surface where contact with ink is only occasional. The risk/reward ratio doesn't seem favorable.
I did not know that would be a problem.

2. Bottom filling implies that the cart is held upside down while filling. Top fill allows the sponge(s) to absorb additional ink beyond just the ink in the tank, and puts more ink into the cart when refilling.
Not a problem. I filled the cart, but in the plug temporarily, and turned the cart the right way up. Then waited for the bubbles to stop (as I did using the durchstich method), then invert and top up.

What's the benefit of bottom filling over top filling?
When top filling, I had used screws and rubber rings. It was always a fiddly job to get the threads started and to know just how hard to squeeze the ring to get a seal. Bottom filling should have given a better seal because of the lower pressure differential.
 

ThrillaMozilla

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pebe said:
Bottom filling should have given a better seal because of the lower pressure differential.
I'm not going to explain this. I'm just going to say that it's easy to outsmart yourself.

If you really don't want to put a plug in the top, and you have now found out what's wrong with putting a plug in the bottom, why don't you put a plug in the end instead? The plug would go near the top.
 

y3kcjd5

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>>365, 367
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the problem you encountered was the plug sticking to the frame of the printer (instead of the cartridge) when you pulled the cartridge out to refill it. This would imply that the (compression) forces holding the plug in the cartridge were weaker than those (gravity? suction on printer frame? adhesion caused by dried ink?) holding the plug to the printer frame. Was there any (dried) ink around the plug when you removed the empty cartridge? If so, that would imply problems with the seal between your hole and the plug you used. If not, the problem would appear to be suction between the plug and the printer frame (a side effect of the same compression that kept the plug in the cartridge). Did the plug resist or make that characteristic suction-cup popping sound when you pulled it off the printer frame? If the problem is indeed suction, then the solution would be to modify the top surface of the plug such that an airtight seal with the printer frame becomes impossible. This can be achieved by scoring either the top of the plug or the printer frame directly below it, or lightly adhering a rough surface of some kind (e.g. dust, lint, tissue/cloth fibers, paper, sand, etc.) to the top of the plug.

I agree with your view that pressure differences should be less significant at the bottom of the cartridge, and believe that drilling a hole in the side of the cartridge near the bottom (e.g. next to the prism) may be an alternative worth trying, provided the spacing between your cartridges is sufficient to accommodate your plugs. My experience too suggests that most non-curing adhesives (i.e. tape-gunk) lose their potency on contact with ink.
 

ThrillaMozilla

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OK, it's clever enough putting the plug in the bottom. Theoretically, the pressure from the inch or two of ink above the plug should be almost exactly balanced by the vacuum in the chamber. Furthermore, you wouldn't have any trouble filling the sponge fill itself to the right level.

Actually, I think it's a great idea. But it doesn't sound like you have adequate clearance (you said only 1 mm), and design of the plugs is problematic under those conditions. The plug may even have leaked(?).

But using tape? A frightening prospect, I think. You can buy low-clearance plugs for top sealing.

But can't you just put the plug on the end of the cartridge at the top? It may be a little tricky drilling the hole, but surely there's an easy way? Alternatively, is there enough clearance for a plug on the side?
 
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