Epson XP-600 and 800 series

[doom2]

Oh boy,

that video is the same guy that said DRILL.

Yep it is, but its just showing how simple it is to get to the ink waste tank whether his information is right or wrong was not in question, we have the good experts here to put us on the right path on how to do the best thing.

Maybe next thing is that he discovered his drilling was not working out. So he started switching to a CISS and after a little while like he says his pad is up. No wonder, just like I predicted.
I can imagine the head cleans he's going through and he did not "get" that something was wrong early on.

Yep i do agree the many cleans I had to do with the CISS system before i found here had annoyed me up too. (crappy CISS system bahh dont get me moaning on that one again.... )

Hi claim of no reset ability is wrong at this time. There is the wicreset and the Epson adjprog that is available. I imagine they're doing brisk business furnishing users who have strayed and filling up their printers.

The Footage was back in June 2013 may not of been updated then??? I've still not been able to find the adjprog for the XP600/700 yet, have you it available on your website?

Cheers
D2

 

[The Hat]

Try here for the reset exec. Program for the XP 600-800

http://www.2manuals.com/product_info.php?products_id=1149?ref=22

Try this key and see if it works 321383A1FBD1D53D
You never know !.

 

[mikling]

Try here for the reset exec. Program for the XP 600-800

http://www.2manuals.com/product_info.php?products_id=1149?ref=22

Try this key and see if it works 321383A1FBD1D53D
You never know !.

Ha ha

The adjprog is expensive at this moment. Care for a USB redirect if you want to experiment? I'll do it if you're willing..i.e. guinea pig. It works but it installs on one machine, It is not cracked.

 

[websnail]

Only the hard core user needs to install an external waste ink tank on these machines.

Thank-you for your opinion.. I disagree.

The Fact and shocking truth is that the pads are in fact Easily accessed

To be honest this is not news nor particularly shocking: Epson make it easy? - posted: 07.03.2009

Without that reference point you would be excused for thinking that Epson are making things easier but in fact they are now shifting to the polar opposite. If anything they're trying to make it harder.

The PX700W through to the Artisan 837 only require one screw and a single catch release to drop out the waste ink pad holder and access the waste pads.
(Ref: http://support.printerpotty.com/2013/installation-px730wd )

Now, with these Premium XP models they have 3 panels, the 6 screws and catches to release before the waste pads can be accessed. Add to that, Epson have obviously taken note of the external waste tank market as they've also gone out of their way to increase the FUD factor by removing any obvious access to the waste tube and I've already seen one video on youtube (see below) where the solution suggested is barely workable and highly likely to pop off.

As for documenting the XP-600 screws.. let me save you the trouble...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW3KoGnQkRA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m9UJ4f1_J8

So while I have shown a waste ink tank, I needed this for development purposes where many insertions and ink changes needed to take place. The average user will not undergo this unless one or more of three possible things happen. They use the wrong ink, use compatibles which do not work well or a CISS. Here you will experience "clogging" like symptoms of bad nozzle checks that jumps all over the place. If you have been through this, you now know what the problem is.

It's obvious that I have a bias here but I work hard to maintain an impartial viewpoint based on what users come to me with... Even allowing for that I still can't agree.

The years of working on waste ink systems indicates that the problem with waste ink is growing, not decreasing. The amount of waste being generated has not really altered but the size of the printers have been squeezed with more and more functionality being added all while printer size is being reduced. Some of that has been resolved with design innovation, smaller cartridges and the like, but waste pad size has also suffered and this has never been more evident since the SX435W (which is pretty much identical to the XP200, XP405 by the way) the waste pads in these are just pathetic.

The XP Expression Premium range have more waste pad capacity than their smaller XP siblings but it's still considerably smaller than the models preceding them.

Additionally waste is not simply generated from testing, or compatibles/CISS "issues". Anyone using an external tank knows that every time a cartridge is replaced (these are smaller cartridges so more cartridge changes/resets) or the printer runs a maintenance routine, it will waste ink. It's not something that happens over a few weeks or even a couple of months, but builds up. The running average is just over a year, before the printer hits the service required issue. Assuming you don't have 150 to blow on a new printer every year, and you realise the printer can potentially last 5 years or longer, end-users start to view things differently, especially when the current financial climate is thrown in.

These are not hard core end-users but people who make use of their printer and who for environmental, budgetary or technical reasons see the value in installing something with minimal mess, just once complete with solid support. If anything it's the hard core users who often try to DIY their solution before becoming unstuck because a year later they've found that backflow to the printhead cleaning/resting pad has been clogging their nozzles. Even the self-service wash and dry adherents rarely go for a second helping of the mess involved.

That said I definitely agree that installing a waste kit of making any other modification to a new printer is plain nuts! A month minimum is recommended and given the lack of CIS compatibility there's no other reason to modify so in this instance, wait until the printer hits the "nappy change stat!" point.

All the pads do is soak up the ink inside the cup/tank. Perfect fit is not necessary just make sure that a depression/hole is placed where it originally was.. You can even use female hygiene pads, baby diapers etc. if you prefer not to wash.

I'd actually recommend alternative absorbent materials instead of washing the pads out (for a ton of reasons: mess, pollution, felting, time required and more besides) but you need to be careful what you choose:

Tampons, for example, expand like crazy so don't fill the pad holder with them and ensure there's a spacer in the centre to allow ink to jet down and not splash back/off. Test with water first to see how many are required to expand and fill around three quarters of the space. You don't want them to expand to the full capacity or the waste ink outlet will be plugged and cause backflow into the printhead resting/cleaning pad.

Test! Do not assume.




The issue of external waste ink kits has apparently taken on a whole life all of its own but I'm aware not everyone rates them and there's a tendancy (on here in particular) to think in terms of self sufficient end-users who will happily DIY but either way it's not cut and dry, one answer fits all and it seems I have to repeat that point despite making it on another Canon thread.

 

[mikling]

How can a conclusion be drawn that Epson is making it more difficult when they provide an internal waste tank MODULE /cup/tray that can be changed out?

 

[websnail]

How can a conclusion be drawn that Epson is making it more difficult when they provide an internal waste tank MODULE /cup/tray that can be changed out?

Pretty much all covered in my previous response above...

Going from one screw and a catch, to 6 screws, 3 catches and having to lever the waste tray out? There's absolutely no need to do it unless you want to further discourage nervous end-users from doing anything themselves. Ditto the use of a plastic moulding to act as the outlet port when the cheaper models (XP200 for example) just poke the waste tube through a hole (with minimal excess).

One key reason I stopped working on the idea of an external waste kit for the Canon printers was that you had to go through numerous catches and screw releases before you could access the waste ink tubes. With every additional step you put off another percentage of your willing users and Epson are leveraging that exact same issue with this.

Now, granted if you're of the mindset that the printer is already a paperweight and you don't want to spend quarter to near the full cost of your printer, getting it serviced (which is an absolute rip off!) there are some who would figure, "what the hey" and rip into it, but that's not many folk anymore. The older generations, who grew up with devices designed to last, might well give it a shot (in fact they make up a significant proportion of my customer base) but most are convenience customers who just toss it and start over.. and that's changing too.


And as for your earlier edited out comments... I'll respond to these as there's plenty of validity in the questions and I need to answer them.

I don't see external tanks for 3800s, 3880, and wide format machines because these are easily serviced via a tray/cup. This is the proper way and more expensive to manufacture and this machine joins that club. It is likely driven by customers wanting reasonable service costs for these machines and service centers should be able to service these printers very easily and here they can. I do not subscribe to the Epson conspiracy theory.

While you may dismiss this as a conspiracy it's not exactly rocket science that the service centres were set-up to service the higher value wide format printers so service centres really don't make any money on desktop machines.

Given that this "easy serviceability" has been around now for the last four years you would expect that to mean that customers would be happier. They're not. That's evidenced by the sheer number of reports I get from customers and site visitors who have taken their printer to a service centre or contacted the manufacturer support and been told it'll cost them anywhere from 20 (if they are really lucky) to as much as 150 or more to have the printer "serviced". In a lot of cases that "service" has been nothing more than a quick trip to the AdjProg reset and nothing further. In others the lead time to get the replacement pads, was 6 to 8 weeks. Those are hard figures based on European suppliers but I doubt there's much difference in North America. Finally the service centres are encouraged to nudge customers to "upgrade" and "trade-in" programs spouting the usual nonsense about non-user serviceable parts, etc...

So, it may not be a conspiracy in the "Oooh the CIA done it", sense, but the manufacturers are certainly not facilitating the revival or retention of these printers. Looking at any printer manufacturers business model and constant battle with third party consumables, this feet dragging approach makes plenty of business sense even if there's a moral and environmental dimension to the decision. Old printers do not encourage OEM consumables use, quite the opposite, so moving people on to the latest/greatest model is more likely to create profit for the OEM.


As for the 3800 and 3880's and more recently the Workforce 3000 and 4000 series (to name but a few) these have all benefited from the fact that Epson have brought the maintenance box concept down into the designs for these printers. The downside is that instead of a cost of around 5 for the pad holder + pads (as per the SX430W), the end user is being charged 15 or more and the tank has a single use chip on it. Cost aside, the ease of access and replacement is a huge factor in favour of keeping things as they are. I judged that there was little point in creating external waste tanks, not because of lack of profit (not a primary consideration I've ever had) but because the OEM design provides a simple solution that meets one of my key criteria (ie: that the printer can be serviced, not just tossed). Still, that hasn't stopped people requesting external waste kits anyway.


.. and to bring this all full circle back to the XP-600's again

It IS harder to install an external waste ink tank on these Premium machine BUT it is much simpler to service it the WAY it is MEANT to be serviced

Yes and no, yes (compared to the Artisan/PX/TX models) it's more involved to remove the screws, panels, etc... to get to the waste tube but for the XP600 et al' it's actually a bit more work again, to get to the waste ink pads (by a couple of screws and lever to release) compared to installing the waste ink kit. That and the fact that the waste ink kit is a one time installation whereas the waste pads require you to repeat the process each time the pads are full. Yes, the average user might not need to do it more than once every year or two, but if the printer is easier and cheaper to use they print more, they waste more, they hit the problem more. And getting waste ink all over your kitchen table, hands, etc... gets rather old fast.


To put this all to bed.. I get that we disagree on the viability of external waste ink kits, I also get that in North America the situation on servicing may be marginally different but can I make the very specific point that I'm basing my opinion on practical experience, customer feedback and the research I have done within this specific arena for a number of years. I know you don't think it works, or that it's worthwhile. I have over 10,000 customers who disagree with you, so perhaps we need to agree to disagree... and I'm going to take my own advice on this. I'm done.

 

[doom2]

As a previous waste ink tank customer I will certainly be fitting one as I said earlier when my warranty has expired or when the counter needs to be reset which ever comes first, as said by websnail above I am one of them customers who only wants to dismantle part of the printer once and once only whether it be 1 screw or 100's of screws.

Cheers
D2

 

[cls]

I bought over 10 waste ink tanks from OctoInkjet for me and some customers and all of them a quite happy and astonished by the amount of ink is poured into the external ink tank wilst doing a maintenance cylce / cleaning cycle.

For right now I just use cheap plastic storage boxes for myself, but for customers I always have at least a spare OctoInkjet waste ink tank on stock

 

[websnail]

Had a very interesting chat with an XP-750 printer owner today...

Due to a rather poor state of affairs the individual in question ended up having to buy two XP-750's due to CIS systems, messing about, etc.. As a result they basically ended up with two separate, unused sets of cartridges that had come with each printer. For the sake of reference I'm going to call them "starter cartridges" (carts) and you'll understand why shortly.

Well, having been burned on the first printer he opted to dump the CIS, and use the OEM starter carts in the new printer. Pretty quickly the first set ran out so he remembered his other starter cart set and popped those in...

... only the printer refused to accept them and apparently indicated (not sure where the error appeared) that it has already been primed with starter carts so it couldn't use this other set. :/


Now, I don't have any screenshots and the user didn't think to record the error so at the moment it's unconfirmed but if true would indicate that perhaps Epson are taking a shot at the strip and resale market.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone can confirm this although I can't see anyone deliberately buying two identical printers (Brian? ) just to find out. If I get the opportunity I'll certainly give it a shot but if it does turn out to be true, the obvious work-around is to install third party chips, be they ARC's or similar.


Thought I'd pass that nugget on though as it certainly was news to me.

 

[doom2]

Hi Websnail. I didn't get 2 XP-700's but this is what I did with My "Starter Carts" and never hit an issue.

1, unpack and use the "Starter Carts 1st".
2, CISS Set Arrived and realised that the CISS carts were crap, put them on the scrap heap pile.
3, re-installed "starter carts" until they reported empty by the driver/printer.
4, re-chipped and re-filled "starter carts" with ARC's.
5, Still Running on refilled starter carts.

I think the XP-750 uses different carts/chips to the XP600/700/800 ???