Epson XP-600 and 800 series

[doom2]

Wow... the internal of the black cart is so stupid and totally wasteful and kinda makes customers think Nice a huge black cart... FAIL!!!! Great info Mikling tried to find the +1 rep button

I think i will approach it like mikling and pop a small hole there to fill it. I take the process would be, please correct me mikling if i'm wrong.

1, Black cart becomes empty.
2, refill via the dribble method until it looks full, IE pads start to hold ink. (or via weight)
3, Turn on its side with the refill plugged hole pointing to the sky
4, Unplug and refill again via the hole then re-plug.

Cheers
D2

 

[websnail]

Just a note on the plug.

I did a quick test on the setup/starter 26BK cart and found the choice of plug was very important indeed. Metric drills create a hole that is either too small or just a teensy bit too large so you need to use a plug that skirts the hole so there's no air leaks. Failing that, aluminium tape is a good backup to ensure there's no air/ink leaks.

 

[mikling]

Make sure the cap seals tight. Once you open the plug, all negative pressure is lost and ink will want to weep out of the pads. So like the cli-8, block out the outlet.
The reason you want to refill a bit first is to make sure that air does not enter the reserve chambers inside the cartridge.
Now after refilling, there will no compression on the diaphragm and a negative pressure needs to set up. When setting up the negative pressure you will likely have a couple drips out of the pad and when the spring comes into compression, the drip will stop. Alternatively, use a paper towel and catch the drips and actually let the paper towel suck a little ink from the cart to set up the pressure.

I'm leery about advising users to max out the black. This can get messy...only for hard core users who are the ones who would install an external bottle. When newbies see the drips hell breaks loose and fear sets in.

The plugs I supply for the CLI-8 is perfect and a 5/32" hole is required. No leaks. Jtoolman used the same for his mods on the Epson 3800 refill tanks and it held pressure reliably. The low clearance plugs I also supply can use a well drilled 1/8" hole and it seals perfectly but the smaller size is harder to handle for north american male fingers.

 

[mikling]

I had some special formulations made up for me and that took some time as a custom order. I finally received them.
All items for this printer will be online very very soon now.
.

It's done as of now. The 6 color printers will be tackled next. Many of the improvements I made with the XP Expression inkset will be carried across to the IS Claria compatible and useable on the Artisan 50, 1400s, 1400, 1430s etc. Significant changes were made to further improve the output. The cost to make these inks is higher and thus the new inkset will command a slight premium over the normal inkset which i deemed unsuitable for the XP600.

 

[mikling]

1. Where can I purchase ARC chips? I am in the U.S.

2. I know that Mikling has his own formula for ink, but since that is his, what would be a good ink to refill with?

I think mikling uses inks from. http://www.precisioncolors.com. I've been waiting for the XP600/700/800 to pop on there but as i'm in the UK shipping will be to costly i suspect for me.

3. Is it best to purchase an XL black cart or standard?

I am using the original "starter cart" from the printer box. They refill to the same Qty as the std/XL.

Regards
D2

Shipping to the UK is only a slight premium compared to shipping to USA for small quantities.

 

[rjgeisler]

Hi Everyone,

This is really a great discussion on the Epson cartridges. A true study in fluid dynamics!
I think I understand everything, well almost everything!

I was on the fence between Canon and Epson and now I think my next printer is the XP-600. I ordered it today!

There are three models of cartridges in these printers. The starter, standard and XL. You will eventually see that the physical volumes of the starter is the same as the standard and XL. My feeling is that it is better to stick with the starter cartridges for the dye inks and get an XL for the pigment text size....but use a standard chip on the XL. The reason is that the chip will always exhaust itself BEFORE the inlet valve is triggered. This will totally prevent air from getting in and triggering the valve and allowing air in. For the 4 dye colors, the cartridges that come from the factory are underfilled. They can be overfilled and the standard chip used, again for stopping the triggering of the valve. The setup pigment cartridge is also FULLY useable and any air that goes in can be removed but that involves a plug.

As I understand it, the main difference between the startup, standard and XL cartridges is the amount of ink and the capacity is defined by the smart chip? Well, except for the Large Pigment Cartridge?

I have also come up with a method of getting rid of the ingested air without a freedom filler. I think this is beneficial because the caps on these carts don't seal as securely as the PGI-9s

A couple more days of testing and everything will be sorted.

Was there any progress on burping the cartridge to remove the air? I recall the jtoolman video on refilling the Canon PGI-9, he just squeezed the cartridge on the sides to force air out of it.

Is the air that enters the cartridge on the inside of the bladder? If so, squeezing the cartridge should expel some or all of this air.

Of course, my ultimate goal would be to get a set of Auto Reset Chips. So is there somewhere to obtain the chips?

An alternate plan would be to purchase retail Epson cartridges and a resetter and refill them as long as the levels never drop close to zero. Of course, that would cost as much as the printer!

 

[mikling]

Hi Everyone,

This is really a great discussion on the Epson cartridges. A true study in fluid dynamics!
I think I understand everything, well almost everything!

I was on the fence between Canon and Epson and now I think my next printer is the XP-600. I ordered it today!

There are three models of cartridges in these printers. The starter, standard and XL. You will eventually see that the physical volumes of the starter is the same as the standard and XL. My feeling is that it is better to stick with the starter cartridges for the dye inks and get an XL for the pigment text size....but use a standard chip on the XL. The reason is that the chip will always exhaust itself BEFORE the inlet valve is triggered. This will totally prevent air from getting in and triggering the valve and allowing air in. For the 4 dye colors, the cartridges that come from the factory are underfilled. They can be overfilled and the standard chip used, again for stopping the triggering of the valve. The setup pigment cartridge is also FULLY useable and any air that goes in can be removed but that involves a plug.

As I understand it, the main difference between the startup, standard and XL cartridges is the amount of ink and the capacity is defined by the smart chip? Well, except for the Large Pigment Cartridge?

I have also come up with a method of getting rid of the ingested air without a freedom filler. I think this is beneficial because the caps on these carts don't seal as securely as the PGI-9s

A couple more days of testing and everything will be sorted.

Was there any progress on burping the cartridge to remove the air? I recall the jtoolman video on refilling the Canon PGI-9, he just squeezed the cartridge on the sides to force air out of it.

Is the air that enters the cartridge on the inside of the bladder? If so, squeezing the cartridge should expel some or all of this air.

Of course, my ultimate goal would be to get a set of Auto Reset Chips. So is there somewhere to obtain the chips?

An alternate plan would be to purchase retail Epson cartridges and a resetter and refill them as long as the levels never drop close to zero. Of course, that would cost as much as the printer!

We have come to realize that the starter cartridges are in fact XL capacity cartridges. The replacement standard will have less capacity than the XL or Starter. They provide starter because the printer must use some ink to initialize. No way around that.
On the slim cartridges one need not worry about air getting back in. Why? Because Epson engineers thought out this one out very well...the ink pad area is always kept moist by the upper chamber and there are in fact two chambers in series to minimize the possibility of ingestion of air. But rest assured, as long as the pad is moist and use is normal, after the initial 1cc or so of air, no more will coming in the slim cartridges unless there is a valve seal failure.

On the larger cartridges, I've shown how to regain lost capacity but my estimation is that this process is limited to experienced refillers. You can do without that and it would be less stressful.

You should ignore a lot of the intial impressions and focus on the latter part where the real facts were laid to bare.

Freedom fillers will not work on this because that hole next to the pad will basically make that not possible. You'd be filling ink inside the cavity between the bladder and outside cover as well. That hole appears to be a trim or used to fill the cartridge during production. The normal vent hole is sealed and that hole is used in a push pull arrangement during initial filling.

The membrane material appears to be a key component to the operation of the interface otherwise air is ingested due to film breakdown. The ink must also be able to provide a certain tensile strength to allow the liquid path to remain intact. Very highly engineered.

It is a clever design and refined over prior art. I expect that more of these will appear on future Epsons. That's fine.

Bring them on. Look at my sig and figure where chips can be found.

 

[rjgeisler]

Bring them on. Look at my sig and figure where chips can be found.

Thanks, found the chips and ink!

These have to be the easiest cartridges to fill.

Thanks so much!
Rhonda

 

[jtoolman]

Not being much of a AIO printer user, I've been following this now 11 page thread with great interest. Just what is it that this printer is offering over other Epson AIOs. Or is the interest due the radical departure from the common EPSON cart design to one very similar to the CANON PGI-9 carts. I understand the challenge of defeating this cart. The majority of the content seems to do with the cart design and refilling which is always interesting.
But how do you guys rate this printer when compared to the Artisan series that would make me want to go to Staples and get one?

Joe

 

[mikling]

Artisans are "NO LONGER AVAILABLE" that is the problem. The new in box Artisan AIOs are commanding list prices now. I hope you stashed some. You would have a better return than if you invested in the depth of the GFC.
The Artisans was the pinnacle of the Epson AIO for the photographer at heart who needed an AIO. As for DVD printing, gone is the automatic caddy as well.
Treasure what you got Joe and take care of it. Them were the days.

The workforce AIO are not really for anyone truly interested in printing photos or a budding photographer. This series fills that void. Watch it carefully because the scheme Epson now has I think will be effective I think. However, it could bring the reputation of clogging machine back not because of the machine but the aftermarkets that will eventually feed it.