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Which Pigment Ink for Epson 1500W?

Discussion in 'Epson InkJet Printers' started by lawrence88, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. Jun 19, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Game over - fade over ? - not yet, but almost , I would like to come to an end in this thread because it got quite lengthy over the last months.
    Let me comment the above findings now with some more stable results after a longer time - and more sun:

    Fotonic XG inks by Marrutt/Lyson which is the most pricey ink I have tested so far, more expensive than
    Fuijifilm Drylab/ Epson Surelab inks drawn from cartridges. The Fotonic XG black ink performs indeed as well as the Fujifilm DL black, with a very good black level and with about the same fade performance. The Fotonic XG Cyan does not perform that well, its fade performance is about in between the EV6/PrecisionColor Cyan and the Fuji DL Cyan, it does not have a good price/performance in this light, so overall these Fotonic inks are not my preferred choice - too expensive

    The Inkthrift CL/Vermont-Ink inks are pricewise close to the D6/DL inks, the black ink is not as good as the DL black, as well the cyan, somewhere between the EV6 and Fuiji DL inks, but closer to the DL inks, so these inks are not an alternative either for me. I have recorded quite some numbers via the method explained earlier, reading the lightness shifts via the histogram of the color patches with a scanner, but these numbers don't really give more information and may create an impression of a high level of accuracy which is not possible with this type of testing, so I won't bother you with numbers and tables, diagrams etc

    Some patches with the D6 and DL inks are as well in the game, the fading of the black and cyan are close together, the DL black shows a visibly better black level nevertheless and therefore is my preferred ink at this time. Their pricing is pretty similar, and bargains from foreign suppliers need to be calculated with their landed cost - including duty and a higher transport charge - which may vary by country of residence.

    Another patch is out in the sun comparing the DL inks and my set of pigment inks
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
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  2. Jun 19, 2016
    pharmacist

    pharmacist Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Thanks for the update. I am using the DL ink in my Epson R2000, using a home-brewed red and orange from DL inks and the results are really impressive with custom made profiles. It produces very glossy prints and using the gloss optimizer also seals the ink droplets with an extra coating of protection against oxidation from gasses like NO.
     
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  3. Jun 19, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Yes, a GO overprint further improves the fade resistance, I did a test like that quite some time ago already, but using a separate print cycle in a GO only printer. The overall problem is that you are pretty much format restricted to A3+ max with the R2000. There is about no chance with larger format printers except you look for and use special RIP software which let you reassign different colors to cartridges.
     
  4. Jun 25, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I got some sample milliliters of a dye ink Coloration ED by farbenwerk.com, usable as a photo ink for the R285, 1500W and alike. That ink claims high light stability compared to other inks - o.k., what does that mean ? Anyway - this ink fades very similar like the EV6 inks by precisioncolors, and they are somewhat close in pricing, so nothing wrong with it .

    If you would ask me what happens and happened with the all those dye inks, samples, bottles I tested over the last 15 months - I'm not a bottle collector, I don't have one hundred + smaller and bigger partially emptied ink bottles at home - I just poured all those inks together - by color, and now have a secret mix for the non-fade critical prints, profiles were/are quickly made with the i1 robot arm to scan the target whenever a new ink adds to the sauce, and the EV6 inks just escaped that, and I printed a pile of target patches with those for further tests as a kind of reference, that was the only clean ink - clean by brand - left , all the other OCP, Coloration, Inkthrift, Fotonic , Chinese inks etc are in one bottle, except a set of Fuji DL and Epson D6 Drylab inks. And now the EV6 inks ended up as well in the big ink bottles.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  5. Jul 6, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I did a fading test about 2 months ago - same ink EV6 on different papers in posting #151, and I redid this test with more sun, other ink , this time a 6 color dye ink Coloration ED by farbenwerk.com, and printed my test patterns on the same range of papers. This is the result after 15 days for the black patch fields, taped together for scanning. I placed a piece of clear scotch tape across the middle of the patch fields at the beginning of the test to see how much such a plastic foil, like lamination can do.

    Black fading.jpg

    these are the papers in sequence from left to right

    1-LS (Logic Seek)180 CC, 2-Labelheaven 180 CC, 3-Tecco Duo matt, 4-Sihl glossy RC, 5-Tecco Photo Glossy PG250 RC, 6-HP Premium Glossy Photo RC, 7-an unkown swellable paper (with some raindrops)
    The differences are clearly visible and pretty great , the cast coated cheepies 1 and 2 are the quickest with fading, 3 as a matte paper does not perform better, Sihl #4 performs better but not as good as the premíum papers 5 and 6, the darkest and best overall is #7 but its surface is uneven and not very pleasant to look at.
    The black Coloration ink fades to gray, pretty much different to the Precisioncolors EV6 black ink which I used earlier fades to chocolade brown , and its funny to see that the Sihl paper # 4 fades to brown regardless - the paper type does not just influence the fading speed but as well the interim color to a degree.
    The scotch tape effect becomes pretty much visible as well, it has a visible and great impact onto the fading, it's probably both a protection filtering UV and as well against gaseous agents like ozone. I would expect a similar effect by lamination or spray coating, or probably glass to some degree.
    The targets are placed outside, day and night, with changing temperature and humidity, and protected against rain - mostly.
    I'll continue the test for a while and then read the gray levels and brightness increase by paper type, as well for the cyan ink. The cyan patches perform quite similar, they don't give any more information at this time.
    I can confirm with this test that the paper type has significant impact onto the overall fading performance of an ink/paper combination, the Tecco PG 250 is about 10x more expensive as the Labelheaven paper which should help making a decision. The Tecco PG250 is specifically offered for Drylab/Surelab printers and available in a range of roll and sheet paper formats.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
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  6. Jul 11, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Let me give you an update how different papers fade - with the same ink set, as above and 5 days later

    Paperfade.jpg
    The papers are from left to right - Labelheaven180 castcoated is the cheapest - Sihl/Aldi Glossy turning brown - HP Premium Photo Plus Glossy with the black changing more into a blueish gray - and the darkest at the right side is a Tecco PG250 starting to change as well to dark brown. The differences in UV stability are significant, and the strong protection by the Scotch tape across the middle of the patches is as well visible, it would probably be very similar to lamination if such additional protection is necessary. I don't have any UV protection spray available nor a gloss optimizer for comparison, that would be something for a separate test.
    I think this test shows very clearly that the choice of paper has a high impact onto the fading performance of inks and printouts with these inks.
     
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  7. Jul 13, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I'm afraid my printing addiction is getting worse - I'm trying to get an answer on some questions which never have been asked in regards to fading ...I just placed some targets out into the environment comparing pigment inks against laser pigments - targets printed on regular paper, photo paper is unusual with lasers. And I'm running a test of the DL inks and pigments inks with and without a Gloss opt. overprint - I found a way with my R265 to run a second print pass with it, and I'm doing that on the best and worst glossy paper from the test above - Labelheaven 180 cast coated and Tecco PG230 Resin coated RC. Tecco replaced their PG250 with a PG230, a glossy paper which is destined for the Drylab printers.
     
  8. Jul 13, 2016
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

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    In case of need, found a self-help group... but until then, keep on testing!

    Actually I would not expect much better longevity from GO, but who knows..

    BTW I have just put under my UV lamp some prints on plain paper (160g "smooth"), to rule out the inkjet coating. Inks are canon OEM and IS. Results next week in the canon thread...
     
  9. Jul 13, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I was probably looking too deep into the ink bottles - during the European soccer championship....
    anyway - I did a quick test about a year ago with a GO overprint - that actually extended the longevity but I didn't collect any numbers by then as I'm not using a GO typically - it's too impractical with printers other than the R2000/P400. It's again interesting how much difference the paper makes , the GO on the Labelheaven does not do much visibly, the GO eliminates the gloss differentials and the bronzing on the Tecco paper, it looks pretty much like a dye ink print, but not on the Labelheaven paper. The GO is from farbenwerk.com and pretty stinky stuff, and I did another test, I used the Octopus rinse solution which I use as a thinner, this time as an overprint, but it does not do anything, does not change bronzing or gloss, so it is not just an effect of liquid on the pigment surface smoothing it, the active clear 'paint' in the GO does the job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
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  10. Jul 14, 2016
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    There is an interesting effect with the GO overprint, clearly visible on the Tecco PG230 paper, I assume that the GO overprint acts as a kind of UV filter, and this becomes visible in white and overwise unprinted areas, only covered with GO - the paper white looks different when you look to it under the sun, it is not as white as the completely uncovered surface - the GO is filtering the UV radiation and thus keeping the optical brighteners in the paper, on the surface of the coating ineffective. This effect is even more visible with a UV penlight clearly showing the border between the GO and non-GO section on a paper with OBA's present. Typically - when you buy a photo paper - you don't know about the OBA's , the supplier does not tell you. Only with special museum/archive papers you may find a note in the datasheet that the paper does not contain any optical brightener additives. And with regular glossy papers you don't have a choice or an option whether you want a particular paper with or without OBA's. OBA's have a detrimental long-term effect that they turn yellow over the years under light and thus add to the overall fading.
    This GO UV shielding effect could make profiling a little bit less ambigous, with X-Rite software you can select for different lighting conditions with the option whether brighteners need to be considered. The white point of a paper is different under light with UV and an OBA in the paper or not. You cannot profile optimally for both situations at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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