Refilling the new Canon PG-40, PG-50, CL 41 and CL 51

[alexandereci]

Seeing as this is a 2-month old post and there seems to be no sign yet of having to replace the print cartridge, I'm optimistic on getting a Canon iP1200. headphonesman, how many times have you refilled your carts so far? Also, can you confirm that CL40/41 tanks are chipped?

 

[headphonesman]

After 2 months of using refilled CL40/41 in a printer which has been used very frequently I can report the following:-

The 40/41 and 50/51 s are chipped carts with the Printhead integral.

They act in a similar fashion to CLi8`s, they will eventually have to be told to carry on printing when they are empty, I refilled mine when they said they were "low". Pressing every button in sight seem to do the trick.
You lose the ink monitoring facility.

Do not use the drill hole method, go straight for levering off the caps with a penknife, its quite easy once you have the seperation started. Refix , original way round, with an elastic band (45 degrees), or with sticky tape, do not allow this tape or band obstruct it clipping into the holder.

When injecting the ink , put just enough in to see it starting to "color" the "deep"end of (you have it stood sloping so the head is not flat on the surface) . Keep the top surface of the sponge as clears as possible, for as many refills as possible.

Always run a "clean" process, a head alignment process and a nozzle check process. I have done this about 10 times, (I have used the printer a lot for 10x8 and Manuals) !.

BUT !.......THIS IS WHERE IT GETS REALLY INTERESTING.!

A few days agon I noticed that my test print showed a very green yellow and rather jaded cyan and magenta.
This was either due to sloppy refilling...or more likely build up of ink residue in the parking area on the pads.

I cleaned off the parking area as best I could with some absorbent tissues, reaching in and pressing towel to the 2 pads.

I took off the color cap, and took out each sponge in turn by using a fine electrical screwdriver inserted between the sponge and the side of the cart, they came out quite easily.
I then placed each between a folded paper towel and placed the package in a clear poly bag, and pressed from the outside. this had the desired effect , allowing me to extract the nearly dry/empty/still stained sponge, leaving the towel behind in the bag.
I then ran under a cold tap. It became CLEAR WHITE in about 10 seconds after a couple of squeezes!.

They were all replaced by reverse procedure and re-injected. After the alignment/clean/nozzle check it gave the best print i have seen from it.

So far I think I have got my moneys worth out of this Head/cart, even if it fails tomorrow, ....but it wont, the secret is to use the printer often and not let it go dry. Just after this I converted my "genuine" set to refill , ready for when this first head goes, (I will let you know,Websnail)

You have almost total control over these carts, I prefer them to BCI 6`s and CLI 8`s. Highly recommended, have fun.

 

[headphonesman]

CL40/41 Refill experience:-

Please note in my previous posts I referred to having carried out 10 re-fills . This is not true in the real sense as I refill liitle and often and probably equates to 5 "full" "proper" refills.

Having said that , the 40/41 cart size is still not overgenerous anyway and would need extra top-ups any way compared to other BCI 6 and CLI8 carts......unlike these there is no reservoir as such , sponge only, probably the same area and quantity as a BCI 6 sponge alone.

The frequent top ups are also necessary because there is no real visible depletion of ink, (unlike 6`s and 8`s) , every so often top -up to the "color-show", to be on the safe side, and not fry the head.

Though these are disadvantages I believe they are outweighed by the advantages.
I have no experience of the larger carts , the 50/51 , I presume they would be appropriately better.

The frequent top ups are not a pain its only 2 carts to worry about , it can be done in minutes, the reseal is simplicity itself (does not have to perfectly airtight, it seems). You do not have to worry about the head drying out/air locks while the cart is off the machine. Ink quality does not appear to be a major factor, I am using a variety of Suppliers, mostly the small bubble pack variety you get in Supermarkets with 4x30 bottles in.

Tip: Elastic bands suitable for 6`s, 8`s and 40/41.......old bicycle tyre inner tube cut across 3/16 inch wide.

 

[alexandereci]

Thanks for the positive response, headphonesman. I'm choosing between a Canon or an Epson printer, and this is a good sign for the Canon iP1200 I'm considering.

A few more questions: regarding chipped carts, is there no way to reset them? Or wasn't there a certain "memory" that you can overcome to maintain the ink-monitoring system while doing your own refills? How do you deal with the no ink-monitoring system problem?

Regarding refilling process, you are recommending to take the cover off? And why not refill the sponge completely? I'm refilling BCI-24 carts and I usually refill till the ink drips off the sponge. Finally, when refilling CL-40/41, does it have to have some sort of mounting platform to suck out ink (like on the bladder-system HP cartridges) or do you just put it on the table, refill, then put back on the printer?

Regarding printing, about how many pages can you print out before having to refill?

Thanks for the help! Greatly appreciate you sharing your experience!

 

[headphonesman]

alexandereci :-

Answers to your queries :-

1. You cannot re-set the chips or the printer eeprom memory(for chip cancel) on any Canon at the present time. Thankfully you do not get locked out totatally (as far as we yet know) as regards re-fill.

2. No ink monitoring (by the printer ) means you must manually take over this function .By waiting till a color has obviously expired (not recommended, head is at risk) , or by "topping-up" the carts on a regular basis. The weight of a cart which needs top-up is quite light...after top-up it is noticeably heavier. Perhaps employ some sensitive kitchen scales to monitor empty and light. I just do it on a very regilar basis and before each print session run a Nozzle check , just to make sure all is ok........and monitor your prints carefully especially if a bit "heavy-duty".

3. Yes take the cover off (drilled hole access is a bit hit and miss and you cannot monitor your saturation level)
eventually you will want to look at the sponges anyway.

4. When you take the covers off you will see that Canon did not saturate the sponge...so why should you ?
In my opinion it is not good to have too much ink sloshing around in the color cart especially. You run a high risk of cross contamination which is a bind to get rid of. (but you can get rid of it provided the head is not the cause). Not saturating the sponge gives you an indication of how much ink needed to go in. Some say saturate then suck off excess......its up to you. There is less risk of excess ink cossing over with the former. Ensure your syringe hits the bottom before pressing the plunger, fill from the " bottom up" as it were NEARLY to the top.

5. " or do you just put it on the table, refill, then put back on the printer?" yes you do , no platform or bladder is needed. Allow the Cart to sit how it wants , on a tilt , with the nozzles clear of the table.

6. Number of pages ?.....I have no idea................never bothered to count.............I just refill on a regular basis, I do not use number of pages as an indicator of re-fill need.

 

[alexandereci]

Thanks again for the reply. Really appreciate the feedback.

Regarding refilling ink carts, I guess taking the cover off is of no danger to the cart since there is a sponge inside. I'm glad they went the "sponge" way, not the bladder way of most HP integrated-printheads which you have to suck off some air (and a bit of ink) just to get it to work and not leak. However, for colored carts, why not just inject ink through the holes until it goes out of the printhead, then withdraw a bit of ink?

Regarding the chips, I seem to recall one method to avoid this: Canon printers remember only 2-3 carts, so if you have 4 carts, you can "cycle" them and the printer does not know that it is a refilled cart. This way you maintain the ink monitoring program --- have you tried this? Or did I recall something else?

With an integrated printhead, this means that changing each time means you have to run a printhead alignment after each change, right? I usually print 200-500 pages (ebooks, manuals, etc) and having to align after each change might break the "rhythm"... How much ink (in ml) does the black cart take? How about each chamber for the colored cart?

 

[headphonesman]

"However, for colored carts, why not just inject ink through the holes until it goes out of the printhead, then withdraw a bit of ink? "

Because the ink will not go through the head until the nozzle fires and causes more ink to be drawn through the head.

"Canon printers remember only 2-3 carts "
This I think originally referred to some HP carts. I am not aware that anyone has said this has been successful so far with CLI8`s........but a bit prohibitive even if it was ...3 Canon sets of carts would be costly.


"might break the "rhythm"... "
I do not understand this......but no matter..... its optional, I only do it because after removing the cart the Printer suggests that you might need to carry it out, I do just to "start off " a new (re-filled)cart gently, before full resumption of proper printing.

"How much ink (in ml) does the black cart take? How about each chamber for the colored cart?."
I refill purely on visible needs not by measurement. I do not bother to measure actual take up because I am filling until I see a slight change below the white surface of the sponge. Because I am doing a little and often the uptake of ink can vary on each occasion, making any measurement redundant. I believe amounts are mentioned in one of these links, but i dont use them


http://www.bs-print.co.uk/canon-ip-1600-refill-instructions.htm
http://www.kingkahler.com/CL41instructions.html

 

[mikling]

I think integrated printheads are possibly better suited for light use printing. If you constantly run big jobs like you describe, you'll be constantly topping up. Worse yet, is that after the first refill, you've lost all indicators for the ink levels with the chipped Canons which cannot be reset and likely won't be resettable in the future either. The other issue to consider is that the integrated printhead cartridges primary purpose was that it be disposable and will allow only so many refills before it fails as designed. The fact it is refillable a few times is a testament and overengineering to ensure that it doesn't fail during it's original fill. Don't get the wrong message, Canon makes a fine printhead but in integrated cartridges they are meant to be disposable..... ideal for light usage and possibly the easiest solution for dried out clogging. Dispose.
Another issue to consider is that sponge cartridges can give you some problems to refill after a few refills. Spongeless cartridges like the Epson do not pose this problem. Thirdly, sponges do eventually break down after some time and I suspect this is one reason why Epson moved away from sponges onto a mechanical delivery system. The slow breakdown can clog your head with undissolvable fragments which cannot be cleared.
The only drawback with the Epson is that if used infrequently, head clog issues may appear. By the description of your uses, I don't see that as a problem. The other issue is that in the past they were not the fastest printers but may have improved recently. The big bonus is that the chips are resettable so you retain ALL original functions including ink levels, have separate ink tanks, have larger total volume of ink per refill ( refill less often) and the original cartridges are totally refillable a near infinite number of times. All you need is an Epson resetter <$5USD, an inexpensive Epson Adapter for refilling <$1USD, some good quality ink and you'll be cranking out pages.

 

[alexandereci]

It fails "as designed"??? How can you design something to fail? What do you mean by this?

Also, although I print a lot, there is often a span of time between them that I don't print much. I usually do a 3-day print run, then don't print anything for maybe a week or so, or just use black ink (reports and such). That's why I'm considering a "disposable" cartridge.

What do you mean I need an Epson Adapter for refilling? Do you mean that syringe adapter?

@ headphonesman:
"break the rhythm" means the way I print --- usually 80-100 pages per "print run" or about 40-50 pieces of paper since I print on both sides. If one full set of tanks run out before this print run is done, it'll be a beyatch to cancel the task, refill, align, and re-task a print.

 

[headphonesman]

"I think integrated printheads are possibly better suited for light use printing"

Mikling, I would not disagree with this comment, I use the MP 150 for day to day printing . I also have a 4000 and a 5200 hooked up , but I keep them for real quality jobs.

I have an open mind as to how long I expect the integrated heads to last on the M P150, I will advise the Forum when one does fail. I intend to keep them going as long as possible by using the careful methods I have already described. This printer was purchased as a trial to see what could be achieved with an integral head using re-fill. If the carts had not been refillable, I would not have purchased the MP 150. I bought 2 MP 150`s for less than the price of the Canon carts in both cases.

"Another issue to consider is that sponge cartridges can give you some problems to refill after a few refills"
Again I would not disagree:-
Yes they can, especially if you cannot get at the sponge entirely to resolve its "problem", like 6`s and 8`s.
With the 40/41 cart you can, very easily, and keep it in tip -top condition by rinsing it under running water.

My postings here in the main have been to answer the queries on the possibilties of re-filling of the 40/41 carts,
yes, you can re-fill them. How long for ? I am not sure yet.
I would not advocate the MP150/170/1200/1600 to be anyones main printer, if they can support an extra, better Printer , whether Canon or Epson , they should do so. and also have something like the MP150 for light printing.