Refilling OEM EPSON carts. A newer method.

[mikling]

I am truly intrigued and dug further into my cartridge I think I am wrong about the orange area and in fact the main yellow area is the issue. The concerns with the filter remain.

The cartridge on the other side


There are approx 9-12 holes on this side that leads back to the other side! This is not a straightforward design.

 

[jtoolman]

Very instructive, thank you!

One thing I didn't understand yet: On the first cartridge you "ruptured" the membrane chamber with air. On the second cart you are using a syringe filled with water.
So do you have to
- FIRST rupture the membrane only with air and
- SECONDLY fill it up with ink?

And is there no damage of ink flow of the refilled cart because of the ruptured membrane chamber?

1st step: Remove any and all ink left in the cart by aspirating with syringe from the exit port with cart help upright.
2nd step: Flip cart upside down and inject 20ml of air pressing steadily until you hear the POP. The remaining air will then freely enter and exit through the air vent.
3rd step: Inkjet ink with the cart oriented on one side with the exit port on the bottom. Inject ink VERY slowly. I did it too fast a rate in the video. About 1 ml every 5 seconds to allow the internal air to fully vent out.

No damage to the internal ink flow. I've tested it out on my R1900.

Rjettek sell the expensive but nicely built EP JIG - Look it up.

Joe

 

[jtoolman]

Behind the cutaway used to be a very fine filter material like cloth that basically filters the air that comes through the bottom of the cartridge. This is the hole that the ink leaks out from when you refill the cartridge.

What happens when the ink wets this filter material? will it dry out and clog the filter and lock up the cartridge or will it remain moist?. With pigment ink, the resin I imagine will cake up and harden the filter and then act the same as if the filter breathers on CISS tanks are wetted with ink. They stop breathing.

Have you tested for this aspect to confirm that it does not matter?

No not yet. I filled a full set of T087s whose wet / air sensor was still good as I pulled them out when they were about 15%
So far it is feeding what appears to be a normal ink flow. I will let the printer sit for a few days which is normal for me and try another print run.

This method was developed by a German group who sells the EP Jig to Rjettek for USA distribution.
There is one video on YouTube but it doesn't really explain much.
Apparently it seems to work.

My motivation was to see whether I could do it without the $210 jig!

Joe

 

[jtoolman]

Here is the EPJig in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVD2YCO2wg

I think I can build one of these in my Machine shop!


This is how I was refilling some of my EPSON carts.

R340, Stylus2200, R2400 Carts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSs6ilutaCI&list=TLRIfkdG4LXWc

This gives you a good view or exactly where the ink is going and circulating.

Joe

 

[mikling]

There are keywords on the warning in the last frame. About no more ink than a certain amount. What about the extra capacity cartridges and the larger volume ones like the R2000 and R2880?

What was interesting to me was the cracking of the diaphragm. I had not known about that but I knew of the other issues that I mentioned when I looked into it, That round part you see on the last photo appears to be an insert and not moulded in actually. It appears to be a precision fit.

The construction of the cartridges for the R340 etc are easily beaten. Epson learned from that and made the second design tougher to refill properly. One reason you are able to fill that generation properly is that Epson had incorporated a shut off valve that seals the exit/air entry labyrinth. As soon as the cartridge is removed from the printer, it closes off and stops any flow from getting get back into the labyrinth and filters. In this generation they played with a dual chamber just as in the newer ones. This dual chamber seems to offer more constant pressure/vacuum making the cartridge appear larger than it really was.

Another way of refilling this generation is here. Just a couple of holes a needle and syringe and glue gun.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/07pipecthqtpm4y/Epson_InstructionsNew_Method_June_2007.pdf

Epson has the most thoroughly engineered cartridges I have ever seen. Their engineers from a design standpoint do an excellent job. ( not from the refiller's viewpoint though). Even on the newest iteration on the XP600, they are able to extract the ink caught in the bellows of the diaphragm. Kudos to their imagination. Really.

With the 20ml of air in the cracking process, I am sure that some of the remaining ink inside the printer will be blown to the filter area. As long as it does not soak the filter it will work. What this process relies on is that it uses some of the volume in the red area to compensate for what does not go in properly into the orange and yellow area. That is the reason for the slow injection. One way of solving the soaked filter if it occurs is to put a slice with a blade across it and allow unfiltered air to enter the cartridge and bypass the filter, no big deal. In a way you will see this design strategy on the compatibles for the 3800. When you look at the compatibles, you'll see some chambers that never get filled with ink. One purpose of the chambers is to trap the ink that might reverse flow into the printer. Something similar is there in the read area shown. The jig takes advantage of this volume to make the weight but as the instructions indicate do not go beyond a certain amount of ink as it will flow onto the filter.


When I get some time, I will crack some and see what happens in the process.

Honestly I don't think the manufacturers target the refillers, they know of people like us but in reality we are a small part of the bigger scene. The big scene they don't want are the big prefilled compatible cartridge companies that sell their compatibles in a packaged box for 50% of what an OEM cart costs... or the customers who will buy a jig and then refill and resell by the hundreds and thousands.

 

[jtoolman]

It is a very interesting process. I often wondered what that round structure was. I should have asked earlier!
What they don't really explain is how to figure out the correct amount or volume of ink to load. I figured I would weigh a brand new OEM equivalent and then the empty one and figure out the difference but actually subtract one or two ml to be safe. Would you suggest another method of figuring out the correct optimum volume for a given cart model?

One think I also noticed was that if you do not use a sufficiently large syringe to be able to generate sufficient force as well as enough air, you end up with a not fully cracked membrane, and ink will not readily flow in. Well it does but the internal air does not escape very well, thus creating nothing but a high pressurized little ink bomb. Oh I know what I am talking about! LOL!

So another question I would pose is, there seem to be two types of cart designs. The type that have the two taped over round openings in the under base next to the exit port. Those were easy to insert the little Rjettek plastic valve into, inject enough ink till the cart's contents are replaced by the new ink. They are then sealed with a little ball. I do my T034s that way and I always get a 42gram cart.

Then there are the newer ones with the different under base. Such as the ones we are discussing. The do have that round hole which I assume is the vent as I was able to see bubbles escaping as I injected air into the ink port on a n empty cart.

The commonality is that they BOTH have that round element on the side of the cart. So since that seems to be the component that is being modified when you crack it with the 20 ml of air, I think we can very likely modify pretty much any cart with that structural element.

I have not dissected as many carts and you have and have not really devoted the time required to learn exactly how the ink is circulated. But I figure if you are careful, and are a bit conservative with the total volume that is pushed in, you should not have any problems.

If only we had a resetter for the T159 ( R2000 )! Cause I "Cracked " one of them and they refill perfectly! But they also have that ink sensor behind the chip body that will come into play if the cart is allowed to go empty!

Did you take a look at those two resetters from Rjettek? The first one is 9 volt powered and way too expensive in my view.

Anyway, I better stop and hit the bed.

Later

Joe

 

[mikling]

OK, a lot of questions. The first one line the R340 type does breathes through the underside of the label if I recall. The flexible membrane in the corner hides a push valve under it. The cartridge was well sealed and completely so. The newer one like the r1900 are not maybe they discovered they did not need to...because that round valve was doing such a great job and the extra shutoff valve was too costly.
That round membrane is a damper of sorts holding a small reservoir of ink for when the printer demands a lot in one shot.
I am also interested in what is behind that round thing. I never was able to get behind it. Now if I had a belt sander with a fine grit, I'd put the cartridge on it and sand into it bit by bit.

As you can see, these OEM cartridges are far more expensive and complicated to manufacture than a Canon cartridge. Do they work better? well the refillables that are far easier to and convenient to refill seem to print as well and are far simpler. Makes me wonder if the engineers just wanted a challenge. As to the newest types...maybe some executive, just woke up one day and said. We are not really stopping the aftermarket so let's just give up, sell cartridges that are simpler and less expensive to manufacture and in the process make more money. That appears to be the XP600 types.....which looks like a CISS for it would be unlikely...or harder to get right. As to the newest types, the OEM ones, like the Canon are made well, refill like nobody's business and you'd have to really wonder why someone who wants to refill would buy an aftermarket cart. From the Artisan days it was clear that Epson does not want CISS kicking around. But in Europe they introduced that model with a CISS. So nothing makes sense...the Epson mystery as I recently pointed out here http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=65905#p65905

 

[cls]

It been 5 years last time I visted my family in turkey, but first thing that I noticed in serveral internet caf and other stores. I never SAW a printer with OEM inks.. ALL Canons and Epson I saw where equiped with cheap China CISS or even DIY solutions with tiny hoses running from 500ml bottles to the refillable cartriges.

I have quite a big family in turkey and everyone has at least a PC at home or even serveral notebooks and stuff. BUT no-one owns a inkjet.
Some of my relatives have a rather old HP laserjet that the got from there job for free because it was going to the dumpster.

Due to the high prices of OEM inks and complicated technical requirements to set up a ciss that is working with no maintenance whatssover nobody really own a printer...

My uncle bought a Epson PX830WD for is law firm, but he is only printing photos with it and he is quite found of it since the It guy who sold im the printer gave him a speciall deal: hooked him up with like 50 aftermarket cartriges for free as long he is buying the next batch of papers and toner for his big hunk copy fax machine there.

 

[martin0reg]

...
.. But in Europe they introduced that model with a CISS. So nothing makes sense...the Epson mystery ...

Epson introduced the L800 (which seems to be a P50 with epson ciss) first in indonasia.
In europe it is introduced until now only in certain countries.
One explanation: these are countries where refilled/aftermarket carts are most used and epson just wants to get a piece of the action..

 

[mikling]

One think I also noticed was that if you do not use a sufficiently large syringe to be able to generate sufficient force as well as enough air, you end up with a not fully cracked membrane, and ink will not readily flow in. Well it does but the internal air does not escape very well, thus creating nothing but a high pressurized little ink bomb. Oh I know what I am talking about! LOL!

I did that today but I got it worse. ,Wanting to see what went on, I removed the cover before the crack. An imperfect crack is what I had twice, the third time, I blew a hole in the clear membrane.
I have a video which I will show after upload.