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Purging the PGI-9 cartridges

Discussion in 'Canon InkJet Printers' started by The Hat, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Oct 29, 2012
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    I have filled my PGI-9 cartridges more than a dozen times now and never felt purging was an issue with these cartridges.

    Theres nothing inside them to prevent ink flowing so I taught till one of them started to have about 50% reduced flow rate.

    There is a very small thin sponge like material in the outlet hole to allow ink out to the print head and air back in which is vital in this type cartridges.

    I suspect that the air flow was being obstructed by foreign bodys of some sort which may have caused my poorer than expect print quality, Mikling mention something about the air passage in these cartridges before a good while ago and I didnt quite take it all in.

    A quick rinse in soapy water followed by clean water and the cartridge was back as good as it ever was, from now on any of my carts that need refilling will first get a refreshing bath before going back into service.

    When I originally decided to refill every cartridge that I used, I never imagined for one moment just how much of a learning curve it all has been and continues to be,
    but I have to say that OEM cartridges are just magic.. :thumbsup

    Here is a shot of the bottom of the cartridge.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Oct 29, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    There is no air intake on these cartridges. As ink exits, the pistonic bladder inside the body collapses. No air is required to replace the pistonic action where ink is used up. The air displaced by the pistonic action seeps through the non sealed sides of the cartridge.

    If you find that the cartridge will not accept the target weight, then the most likely cause will be that the bladder has ingested air or air is trapped inside. This will occur when the cartridge is left open to the atmosphere and the balance spring inside the cartridge is allowed to move the pistonic bladder out. The other source of this is when you refill the cartridge improperly using a pressure method "hat" but inadvertently force air in. In both instances, the air can be removed by the reverse of filling by drawing out the top of the cartridge.
    In rare cases the spring inside the bladder is broken, but with the high quality of the Canon cartridges this is extremely unlikely.

    If you use cartridges that have had been exposed, dried etc. It is important to make sure that the resins that have dried out is broken down and flushed through or removed. Keep this in mind. Pigment ink is water resistant, so if you are going to clean the pad that has dried out, the pad will be water resistant. So some sort of fluid that will readily break down the dried up resin is recommended. I use pigment ink clear base as that re-dissolves what had dried and what is left is fully compatible with the new ink. If you use other chemicals be sure to test its compatibility with the ink you intend to use.

    Normally, you should not have to flush the pad as the normal course of useage will flush it on a consistent basis as ink exits. What needs to be investigated is whether "the hat" method of refilling can cause issues of forcing pigments to the side where the air intake is shown above. With the slower dribble fill, squeeze, flood and remove excess, the pads will not get buildup as the refill action washes and disperses any settlement and also takes care of removing the trapped air when the sides are squeezed. I always prefer the turtle process of slow and steady and reaching the proper end result with no drama.

    Again, whether the purging as described by hat is a result of the refill method used, warrants further investigation.
     
  3. Oct 29, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    For the inexperienced refiller here is a video that jtoolman made of the dribble process:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU

    You should note the following:

    When ink is put back inside, it is the reverse of how ink normally exits while printing. The refill process actually washes out the ink pad itself each time the cartridge is refilled and thus assures that the pad is always in tip top shape. Essentially you are in fact "flushing" the pad each time you refill. Even if the pad was not perfect, this washing action does no harm but only good as it redisperses any settled pigments. At the end of the fill, the sqeeze on the sides is to "burp" the cartridge to force any trapped air inside out. The method is slow steady and foolproof. Did I say slow? ..but make yourself a cup of tea or coffee and take this time to wind down with no drama in the refill.
     
  4. Oct 29, 2012
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    All of them! LOL
    Thanks for th promo Mike, in fact the slower the better. Doesn't really take too long to fill a cart. I usually do not wait till it is reading empty.
    I pop in a ready to go full set the minute one reaches about 10% the I can have a nice cup of tea while it top off the just removed set.
    It really is the best work flow to minimize possible ink purge cycles if you are replace carts one at a time as needed.

    By the way folks I am using Precission Colors Ink set for this printer.
     
  5. Oct 29, 2012
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    For some reason my refilling method is bring called into question as an inappropriate way to refill the PGI-9 cartridge.
    If anyone has cared to review my refilling method they would see clearly that it doesnt force anything into the inner bag, be it ink or air.

    However I must say that air is forcibly removed from the inner bag firstly but is then gently replaced by only the ink and not any air; yes it is a darn site quicker that the dribbling method but its no more damaging that squeezing the sides of the cartridge itself.

    I have used this method for quite some time now and can safely say it doesnt harm the cartridges in any way to render them unusable. (Excess of 100 fills)

    Now as far as there being no air intake on these cartridge is concerned that is certainly very debatable, yes the ink comes out and we know that something has to replace that ink.

    The inner bag does not automatically collapse for one simple reason that there is a spring doing its upmost to keep the bag inflated, so if air does not enter this bag then ink will fail to come out, it has to strike a balance. (Thats my theory on it anyway)

    As far as the pigment ink being water resistant, yes that is true only when dry but not while still in liquid form and water will indeed wash it all away, add in a small bit of soapy liquid and it cleans up nicely, See my matt black cartridge above as clear evidence of that. (Sponge very clean)

    I have had one cartridge with poor ink flow which I put down to some sort of blockage of the outlet sponge, I could have blamed the ink, as most guy would have but I didnt, instead I assumed (Rightly or wrongly) that it must have bring block on the outside rather than the inside. (Again just my theory on it)

    This started because I reported that I had to purge a problem cartridge so others may have the benefit of knowing that this can actually happen (despite some scepticism) even in this type of cartridge and not to have a perfectly good refilling method called in to question because of one single questionable theory..:(
     
  6. Oct 29, 2012
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    All of them! LOL
    I have also made a filling attachment clip which I also do use, when I end up with a cart set that is very low. I will carefully suck out the air with a syringe ( like HAT ) and and then proceed to inject about 15ml followed with a dribble till I see a wet exit sponge. Squeeze the sides a bit, with some blotting off of excess ink.
    If I am just topping off a few carts , I'll resort to the dribble method.

    Either method is brilliant and I had nothing to do with any of them so the credit goes to you guys.
    It's a better method than DRILLING a hole like Ross Hardy does. YIKES!!!!!!
     
  7. Oct 29, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Hat, the spring is in there to prevent the ink from coming out forcibly. It pushes the sides of the bladder out as it is the natural inclination for the spring to extend. This spring action then pulls back on the ink wanting to come out. The identical process is used the over decade old HP45 cartridges. Remember those with the 40ml of ink inside. Those cartridges use the identical process. When the cartridge is empty you will see the inside bladder collapse flat through the side window. When it is full, you can clearly see the bladder right against the window. No air is supposed to replace the ink inside the bladder. This is an important distinction with this PGI-9 and why when properly refilled each time, they should be totally problem free unless something inside mechanically breaks.

    What I am wondering is if the method of shooting ink back in through a localized spot has anything to do with the problem you encountered. maybe over a period of time this shooting or infusion in one spot does not provide clearing or flushing of the pad or the channels.

    This is not a contest of the methods that should be used , but I raise the possibility of what one method might create over a period of time and further investigation with the scientific method is warranted. It is by no means definitive.
     
  8. Oct 30, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    OK I will illustrate what is happening here.
    Here is a scan of two cartridges both are PhotoMagenta. One is empty and one is full.
    [​IMG]

    The cartridge on the left is empty and you should be able to see the diaphragm sink into the inside towards the opposite side of the window, That is what happens when the ink is used up. The accordion like bellows flatten. The cartridge on the right is full and the bellows are fully extended and lie close to the window.

    Thus when ink is used up, the flat diaphragm heads towards the other side of the cartridge. Air does not go back into the bladder. It enters the case outside of the bladder. The seal on the underside does not allow air into the cartridge at all. There is no air intake to the inside of the bladder.

    Maybe after a few times of speed refilling you should refill slowly just to disperse any possible issues.
     
  9. Oct 30, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Actually, it was little over a year ago the Hat posted this picture and with his permission I downloaded and stored it because it was such an excellent illustration of what goes on inside the PGI-9. I did not want to destroy a cartridge when one had already been sacrificed. Maybe hat has been imbibing a bit.

    [​IMG]

    Image courtesy of the Hat
    Notice some holes on the left side. These holes are where the ink exits the internal bladder of the cartridge. There are also some channels that distribute the ink across the pad. What could be happening is possibly settlement in the channels causing restricted flow? We won't know until we do some more investigation as to what caused his cartridge to misbehave. What I was pointing out is that when the slow method is used, it will naturally want to rinse out the internal channels of the cartridges as shown above as well as wash out the pads as well. If the fast method of refilling is used using the clip on arrangement, it possibly might not wash out the channels but cause it to build up sediment over time because the entry of the refill ink is concentrated over one spot and this happens pretty close to the holes entering the bladder. The rest of the pad is not washed out when the speed filling using the clip on arrangement is used.

    If this happens on another cartridge, then the proper way to find out what was really happening is by taking the thing apart. That way we'll know for sure what was going on.
     
  10. Oct 30, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    [​IMG]

    The above shows what happens when you remove one side of the PGI-9. Notice how the spring has pushed out the bellows. The spring action is actually quite strong..leading me to think that the refill process when dribbled could be surface tension effects... and not so much gravity related. There are some do and don't of this cartridge which I will place on my site one day.
     

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