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Pigment in dye head.

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard HP InkJet Printers' started by ccc, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Jan 22, 2019
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    I am not an Epson owner, so this is the first I've heard about encrypted print heads.

    After watching a different video here it seems the "first lock" was Epson's first print head firmware code to prevent use of their print head in a non-epson printer (eg a Chinese knock off). The speaker in the video does not say the lock was designed to prevent the Epson printer from using non-Epson chipped ink cartridges, something that might be built into the printer's own firmware and flashable with updates.

    Back to the "first lock" story... a "decoder" was all that was needed to bypass the coding ID process. It is the "second lock", ie newer generation print heads, that seems to be problematic to bypass. The newer code is just not compatible with the "first lock" generation decoders.

    According to the video I linked, the earliest generations of these Epson R2400 print heads were "unlocked" and could be used in non-Epson printers without any workaround. Also, the young man in the video uses a different numerical code on the sticker on the print head to identify first versus second lock versions. Maybe things have changed since 2016 when the video was made. :idunno

    Interesting stuff.
     
  2. Jan 22, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    The maintenance manual should tell you what you need to do in case of swapping a printhead -e.g. registering the printhead with the maintenance software, but how does that relate that to the original question of the thread whether an HP T120 printer would print with pigment inks - are HP printheads coded, serialized whatever as well ?
     
  3. Jan 23, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I had a look to the Epson SC-P400 service manual, it contains a detailed section 5.2.4 about colorimetric calibration - pp 155 ff which describes the process ' The calibration is performed to compensate the ink discharge amount when one of the following parts are replaced - printhead - main board - power supply board. '
    The first step requires the entry of the printhead code, as printed onto a small label on the printhead, as well with a QR code. This printhead code apparently transfers printhead specific data into the EEPROM for use of the firmware.
    'In the printhead maufacturing process the ink discharge amount is actually measured to get individual characteristics information. The information is stored on the printer as head ID to control the print head'. The manual continues with colorimetric calibration using a X-Rite spectrometer i1Pro. The manual does not refer to any encryption or whatever.
    It is correct that Epson is selling printheads to other companies producing printers for other commerical and industrial applications. It could be that such data is not collected or coded a different way for such printheads.
    But all this is not related to HP T120 printers, HP may do that the same or a different way.


    Edit:
     
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  4. Mar 24, 2019
    ccc

    ccc Printing Apprentice

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    Someone earlier asks how the pigment in dye channels of an HP T120 is going now. It's been printing normally for some time - we're on the seccond set of pigment carts and everything is normal. I should pint out that we use a Qimage auto ink purge routine every 5 days to keep the flow going. We've been using Qimage auto purge for years, earlier with a Canon iPF 6100 then with theT120. Printhead is three years old, no hanky panky to install one, just take out the carts, run head to center position, lift lever and out it comes.
     
  5. Jun 12, 2019
    INKJET ARTIST

    INKJET ARTIST Printing Apprentice

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    Can you see the image below?
    It is printed on HP Deskjet 3420 or something like that with HP 28 cartridge with pigment ink for verification. With possible application for vine labels. But since interest has been zero we put this option by side. So now I am not sure what is live span of these HP 28 cartridges with pigment ink.
    But it worked and the result has been perfect. Water resistant.
    Also we have had some test with one other pigment polymer water resistant ink on HP 11 printhead platform. Suitable for Designjet 500. But this happened to be total disaster for the simple reason because you are not able to clean 100% these HP 11 printheads. And some how remained ink initialize polymerization of that water resistant pigment ink in printhead chamber. And the next day you do have problem with clogged nozzles. While a day before you got the perfect printout.
    So thing are not as easy as it seams.
     

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  6. Jun 12, 2019
    ccc

    ccc Printing Apprentice

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    What is"pigment polymer water resistant ink"? A T 120 is a very recent unit, I think they only appeared in 2015. Totally different print head to DJ 500.
    If you want a weather proof print, we use clear auto spray as a final finish. Image usually outlasts the canvas or paper it's printed on when left outdoors.
     
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  7. Jun 12, 2019
    INKJET ARTIST

    INKJET ARTIST Printing Apprentice

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    Pigment == very small nano particles not dye
    Polymer = some kind of water soluble heat resistant resin verified on bubble print heads

    So if you are using liquid lamination then you do not need these pigment polymer inks at all since your lamination liquid is polymer and UV filter and sealant
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  8. Jun 13, 2019
    ccc

    ccc Printing Apprentice

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    If you mean that dye inks don't fade if laminated, we've found that not to be so. Even HP current dyes only have a non observable fade life when laminated of about 2 years indoors. We've done multiple dye ink fade tests and all drastically under-perform even third party pigment inks, even when laminated.
     
  9. Jun 13, 2019
    INKJET ARTIST

    INKJET ARTIST Printing Apprentice

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    That is true
    All dye ink do fade. Even UV dye ink after some time when UV filter has been used. So lamination if it has UV filter would be helpful for a while
     
  10. Jun 17, 2019
    INKJET ARTIST

    INKJET ARTIST Printing Apprentice

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    That is true but pigment ink can not match some photo printer with a dye ink in color fidelity. Also you can not replace dye ink printer with pigment ink since dye ink printer is stacking color dots for right tone. And if you stack pigment dots you will still get the same color dot.

    Just been messing around with some UV & water resistant Dye inks for Canon. Looks good what so ever but two years is long time to find how long it could last outdoors.
     

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