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Pigment in dye head.

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard HP InkJet Printers' started by ccc, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Nov 23, 2018
    Ricardo Quindere

    Ricardo Quindere Printing Apprentice

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  2. Nov 23, 2018
    ccc

    ccc Printing Apprentice

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    On a printer site that I can't remember, someone said that they used pigment in a dye HP printer but I can't remember where I saw it. My post here is in case that member reads it and responds. They said it works provided regular shaking of the carts was done.
    So far as print heads go, the crucial aspects are using HP pigment and what the nozzle diameter dimensions are, compared to the dye nozzles.
    Another avenue of exploration is to use "Duraform" ink, sometimes known as Universal ink. It is marketed as an ink with a very extended fade life and fits any printer. Pigment, dye, hybrid? They don't say. Did they use Atomic absorption spectroscopy to find out what Canon use in their Chromalife 100+?
     
  3. Nov 24, 2018
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    Do you mean this ink? If so, it does identify as Dye or Pigment. Here is another link for a Durafirm ink set for some HP printers that use all Pigment ink. I have no idea if they are telling the truth or not. :idunno

    Generally, the forum consensus is to avoid "Universal inks" as they are inferior. In the case of Canon print heads, Universal pigment inks, or any inexpensive pigment ink, may not provide sufficient cooling of the nozzles resulting in irreparably warped nozzles. You won't know till it happens.

    Also, forum consensus is there are no aftermarket Dye-based inks that have the longevity of OEM inks. Aftermarket Pigment-based inks appear to be a different story, though. But again, not all aftermarket inks perform the same. In general, nothing outperforms OEM inks out of the box.
     
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  4. Nov 24, 2018
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Are you intending to use an all pigment ink set on your printer ?
    They say - the seller specifically classifies these inks on this page
    https://cartridgeamerica.com/itm/du...QYBSABEgIqf_D_BwE&SSAID=314743&utm_source=SAS
    as pigment inks - there is no reason to doubt that at this time. And they specify the cartridge types they offer this ink to be used with, it is not advertised as 'universal' here.
    It is correct that pigment inks generally have a significantly better fade performance than dye inks, but with some possible optical detrimental effects on glossy papers like bronzing, but this would require a test.
     
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  5. Nov 24, 2018
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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  6. Nov 24, 2018
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    yes, you are right, my search engine got me there as well .
    I'm having the impression that such offerings are not very popular overall and just cover some niche market. There could be longer term implications with refill, the cartridges most likely use foam filled chambers for the ink, and that foam may filter the pigments after several refill iterations. So it's all pretty theoretical at this time.
     
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  7. Nov 29, 2018
    ccc

    ccc Printing Apprentice

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    Anyone thinking of making an ink product should probably talk to clarient.com in Switzerland. Looking at their site, products and info in general, I bet that's where Epson got the name "Claria", and raw materials for its long-life dyes. More likely is that Clarient makes Epson's inks.
     
  8. Nov 29, 2018
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    ?? Clariant may be a supplier of raw materials - dyes and pigments but there are more companies like them, Toyo Inks much closer to Epson has a range of custom made colors, inks, etc with proprietary recipes as well, and there are a few other chemical companies around the world. There are most likely several companies offering such dyes , for the Claria inks, Chromalife inks, for HP and Fujifilm, it's no chemical secret, it's the higher price which deters makers for 3rd party refill inks to use such materials - refill inks have to be cheap and are sold by the price but not fade resistance only a few customers would buy at a premium price.
     
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  9. Nov 30, 2018
    ccc

    ccc Printing Apprentice

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    Just musing on naming similarities. (BASF are the major pigment suppliers to ink makers. I once used data from a Royal Chemistry Society research paper to estimate that at a generous margin the price for OEM ink should be about 23% on average of what they do charge.)
    However, still to hear from anyone with personal experience of using pigment in dye heads.
     
  10. Nov 30, 2018
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Pricing of inks - that's not based on cost ;
    I don't think there is a printhead for dyes or pigments per se; It's the solvent which makes the ink working in a bubble/thermal printhead or a piezo printhead - it's parameters like surface tension, viscosity, the evaporation energy and some more.
    Just as an example - the printhead of the WF-2010W runs on Durabrite pigment inks, and you find this same printhead in lots of other printer models - Expression Home with a pigment black and CMY dyes and L---and Ecotank ET-- series printers with all dyes. Large format printers were offered with dyes or pigment - Pro 4000 - Pro 7600 .
    Users are running pigment inks on an Epson 1400 etc, I did with R265 printers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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