My Canon PRO-10 on refill ink - and what happened to my PRO-9500II

Artur5

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Only 110 euros is a terrific deal for a Pro10 with a printhead in full working order. New printheads cost already much more than that. You've been lucky. :)
I checked Amazon Spain right now and all Pro-X00 Canon printers are in stock at reasonable prices. It wasn't so a couple of months ago.
Pro-100s: 490 euro. Pro-200: 499 euro. Pro-10s: 713 euro. Pro-300: 767 euro.
Hmm.. Pro-100 and Pro-200 practically at the same price. Guess which one will buy a refiller..:D
 

palombian

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Only 110 euros is a terrific deal for a Pro10 with a printhead in full working order. New printheads cost already much more than that. You've been lucky. :)
I checked Amazon Spain right now and all Pro-X00 Canon printers are in stock at reasonable prices. It wasn't so a couple of months ago.
Pro-100s: 490 euro. Pro-200: 499 euro. Pro-10s: 713 euro. Pro-300: 767 euro.
Hmm.. Pro-100 and Pro-200 practically at the same price. Guess which one will buy a refiller..:D

Second hand PRO-10S asking prices here 300-450 :eek: .
As cars, prices decrease with age, but there is no reason an older PRO-10 shouldn't have low mileage.
 

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There is a small air inlet at the top corner of the tanks and if water or any fluid enters there during any wash or soak procedure, the resulting fluid inside will cause the diaphragm to stick onto the case through surface tension effects and bad flow will result. Those espousing dumping these tanks into water need to correct their advice. Once water enters it is near impossible to remove because there is essentially no circulation inside that space.
Enter... Centripetal force.

It's possible to wash cartridges and then dry them (completely). To achieve the latter, it's possible to empty the inner case void (the area around the internal bag) using a careful arrangement of the cartridges in a spin dryer such that the cartridge case vent/air-inlet is the furthest point from the axis of rotation. Spin the thing up briefly to a few RPM and no water is staying in that void. Passive drying would be difficult as heck, but drying the cartridges is not impossible by any means.

There is another reason why you should NOT use the fast method as some have espoused. Once the bladder inside has set its folds as a bellow inside, you only want to have it repeat the same path over and over and its pattern is smooth, If you force the folds out completely, you can disrupt the pattern and then it can cause a sticking action.
Interesting idea but it's easily avoided by force filling to around 80% of the cartridge volume and then finishing up with dribble filling which is recommended anyway as it helps avoid overfilling and helps saturate the entire length/breadth of the outlet sponge.

Worth noting that despite the fact that I sell a tool that enabled force filling, I actually find that we use force filling for approximately 20% of the filling we do, with dribble filling as the more prominent approach as most refilling in a full-set-swap is topping up, rather than complete cartridge refills.

There is another reason the fast method is not so good. It does not clear the pigment settled into the contact pad. During a refill with the slow method, the user can apply ink throughout the pad and BACKFLUSH the pads thereby dislodging trapped pigments back into the tank to be mixed again. If you use the fast method, the incoming ink essentially is forced in and concentrated at one point. It hardly backflushes the entire pad. So for those espousing the use of the fast method, it has its drawbacks and you need to recognize it.
Again it's a nice theory but the amount of pressure that the dribbled ink has is next to negligible and I wonder just how "active" the flushing action really is. If there's genuinely an issue with pigment settling in the sponges/mesh then a user might want to look at their ink formulation to address any settling/clumping issues.

I'd certainly agree that force filling focuses substantial pressure to a single central point in the outlet sponge, and does little to resolve substantial clogs in the outlet sponge nor the metal mesh that sits behind it. But dribble filling isn't going to be substantially better.

If a cartridge sponge or mesh has become clogged the only way to seriously dislodge and clear the clog is to use a cleaning solution to break it down, then remove it before rinsing it with a neutral solution. Ironically enough, use of a modified transport clip is one of the only ways to achieve this effectively... And even that's not perfect. I would love to develop a type of flush clip that had a far broader nozzle arrangement as it would certainly resolve a lot of the issues we've seen with cartridges that have been left open to air for months/years and dried solid.

In case anyone wants to look, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from modifying the clips themselves using a blunt needle, epoxy, etc... It's just not very reliable, rather messy and prone to breaking. If you are considering it yourself I'd recommend Sugru and a needle hub as a starting point. Sugru really does make a lot of things easier.

Smoking is known to be bad and it is proven. Yet there are many who have lived long lives and smoked. You make the choice of the path you take. So I wish no comments how the fast method worked for them and there is no issue. There are many paths to a destination.
Ok look... This forum is based on sensible people, experimenting, sharing experiences, comparing notes, even collaborating but critically, by keeping an open mind so there are indeed many paths to a destination but assuming an extremist position of force filling versus dribble filling, as if they are totally incompatible, is dis-ingenious and ill-considered. They each have their place and merits.

So, you can "wish" no more comments... but you've received them regardless.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion but equally they should have their suggestions, wild ideas and results tested, examined and discussed...

I've spent the last heaven alone knows working on PGI-9's and PGI-72's... learning about how to clean them, dry them and more besides...

But to address one other misconception... My focus remains one of finding solutions to problems. I do not source product simply because I can market as a fix. Similarly I do not invent or imply barriers simply because I lack access to those solutions myself. If flush clips were utterly useless I would have stopped sourcing the clips or improving the production process. Similarly I'm sure competitors would have abandoned their numerous attempts to source and offer the same clips themselves.

So, to the community at large, make of my experience what you will... Peace out.
 

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Second hand PRO-10S asking prices here 300-450 :eek: .
As cars, prices decrease with age, but there is no reason an older PRO-10 shouldn't have low mileage.
There are a LOT of Pro-10 and Pro-100 units coming up on eBay here in the UK.. Most I'll wager are simply down to lack of use with a few likely to need a new head or have nearly full waste pads. Whatever the reason, there's plenty of scope to purchase some bargains and lemons...

I'm steering clear.. I need to get rid of printers, not buy more! ;)... but if someone wants to get a DOA Pro-10 and/or Pro-100 to disassemble and do a detailed tear down I'd be happy to contribute a Printer Potty and some funds towards the effort.
 

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If a cartridge sponge or mesh has become clogged the only way to seriously dislodge and clear the clog is to use a cleaning solution to break it down, then remove it before rinsing it with a neutral solution. Ironically enough, use of a modified transport clip is one of the only ways to achieve this effectively... And even that's not perfect. I would love to develop a type of flush clip that had a far broader nozzle arrangement as it would certainly resolve a lot of the issues we've seen with cartridges that have been left open to air for months/years and dried solid.
...

As testified by many users, "fresh harvested" PGI-9/PGI-72 cartridges can be refilled for years without problems.
Once you have a good set keep it.

Except for the 3 small holes behind the mesh+sponge only the latter can be the reason for clogs and cleaning is very difficult.
But it is possible to remove the plastic frame retaining the sponge and mesh.
I never tried but maybe it is easier to clean the parts this way, or replace them by ones scavenged from another cart ?
Finding a replacement material can be forgotten since most of the know-how is in these parts.

Still have to find evidence there is an internal difference between PGI-9 and PGI-72 (or PFI-300...).
 

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As testified by many users, "fresh harvested" PGI-9/PGI-72 cartridges can be refilled for years without problems.
Once you have a good set keep it.
Oh heck yes... If you have cartridges that have not been allowed to dry you're on to a winner.

I never tried but maybe it is easier to clean the parts this way, or replace them by ones scavenged from another cart ?
...
Still have to find evidence there is an internal difference between PGI-9 and PGI-72 (or PFI-300...).
TBH, it's easier to wash the PGI-9 cartridges even when dry, as the ink is less resinous and can be washed out more readily. So, given that there literally is no difference, internally, between them and the PGI-72's I'd lean more towards chip swapping and using those instead.

I'm still pursuing a direct approach to cleaning rather than chip swapping, but the swap out approach is a more achievable option for a home user... IMHO at least.
 

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TBH, it's easier to wash the PGI-9 cartridges even when dry, as the ink is less resinous and can be washed out more readily.

...

What's being told about "microencapsulation" could be the reason ?
 

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it's easier to wash the PGI-9 cartridges even when dry,
Old discarded or neglected PGl-9 /72 carts can be cleaned by flushing them first with warm water and fairy soap a few times using the refill clips, then filled with W5 window cleaner and left to stand upright in a saucer of pharmacist solution 1 cm deep.

After 24 hours they should flushed again with 5 ml. of the proper colour ink that matches the label and then refilled for use, they will perform just like new..;)
 

Artur5

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A more expedite system is to put the cart in the dishwasher.
There’re plenty of wash programs to choose from. Hot water, bleach, forced water jets, bubbles and so on..
Just remember to remove the chip beforehand. ;)

No, I never tried, but that’s because I don’t own a dishwasher machine. :D
 

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