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i1 Studio vs. Datacolor Spyder Print Profile comparisons

Discussion in 'Printing Photos and Photo Software' started by Ink stained Fingers, May 19, 2019.

  1. May 22, 2019
    Mike Earussi

    Mike Earussi Getting Fingers Dirty

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    I own the Spyder 3 and find the strip reading totally useless as it's prone to constant misreadings. I now only use the single patch method, which is very slow, but it is also fairly reliable.

    The Spyder can only read some papers accurately enough to create a usable profile, specifically very smooth papers like flat matte, smooth glossy and fine luster. Anything with a pronounced texture and you will get a misreading--it's especially bad with glossy canvas.

    BTW, no one in the U.S. ever recommends Spyder, they all prefer the i1 instead. Spyder's customer service in the U.S. is not very good either.
     
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  2. May 22, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I'm sorry for not being clear enough, the gamut defines the range of colors you can print with the given printer/driver settings/inks/papers, any color outside the gamut is not printable. The gamut display does not tell you how input colors are mapped to the ouput colors via the profile data, so yes - these internals can indeed be different and would require some more sophisticated tools to look into the table data , the different rendering intents describe the rules how colors are transitioned from inside to outside the gamut. The gray axis is very much in the middle of the gamut volume but you still can get different lightness values depending on the settings - BPC on/off + rendering intent. So even if you have the same gamut the input to output color mapping inside can be different. Colorvision has a display option to show these input to output vectors in the color space but this display mode is overall not very helpful for a more detailed analysis. ColorThink by Chromix offers something like that as well but is barely better, and you have to pay for that software.

    We did some profile forensics but did not do a complete comparison - Spyder vs. i1Studio. I only can tell you this that we did not get any signficant deviations between i1 and Spyder gamuts - as long as the scanning did not create erratic readings. So I only can repeat the advise by Datacolor to use Spyder profiles only with the saturation rendering intent - w/o BPC. Color prints look alike colorwise, the only perceivable difference is the slight lightness increase of the Spyder profiel vs. the i1 profile - which you only can see if you directly compare prints with different profiles as we did. Robert is happy with the Spyder profiles - the lightness increase beyond the level the BPC option gives you helps a little bit to improve the contrast/detail definition in shadow areas. But there are other ways as well to do such adjustments in Photoshop or else prior to printing.
     
  3. May 22, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    o.k. - you are apparently as well a victim of these stripe reading errors and the single patch mode is pretty slow.
    You are addressing another issue - how the sensor handles papers with a gloss effect on the surface. This issue is not related to scanning errors but the construction of the sensor hardware - i1 is using a standardized setup of 0/45 deg - the illumination happens via a ring mirror and the light hits the paper under 45 deg. The actual sensor is positioned above and reads the the reflecting light under 0 deg. I'm not familiar how Datacolor is doing it. But yes, there are a few papers which the i1Pro spectro cannot handle either very well either, papers of the Lustre type as I have seen so far. But that's quite a different subject.


    Edit:
     
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  4. May 22, 2019
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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  5. May 22, 2019
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    Datacolor calls it's SpyderPrint unit a "spectrocoloimeter" while X-rite calls the i1Studio a "spectrophotometer'.

    Are we comparing apples to apples or is there a difference in the units in how color is measured, the number of filters used, etc?
     
  6. May 22, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    yes, there are differences between the instruments but they cannot explain the erratic readings in stripe mode and have no impact onto the way the color mapping tables are calculated - including the substitute for the BPC option.
    This thread shows the same problems with erractic readings in stripe mode , about nothing seems to have improved since then. Robert told me that he does not plan to invest into another profiling package at this time, he is not doing that many profiles to justify that, and he is happy with the current profiles he got - after all our tests and investigation.
    And I offered him - in case of need - to run an i1 profile for him.
    But I would not recommend the SpyderPrint package at this time for anybody who plans to buy a new package.
     
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  7. May 23, 2019
    vmw

    vmw Newbie to Printing

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    Thank you for your explanations. It is no clear for me. The difference is for example comparable to the difference one gets when printing with or without BPC.
     
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  8. May 24, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    - Datacolor has implemented a functionality which resembles the black point compensation but with a stronger effect
    - you cannot turn off this function
    - you are supposed to use the saturation rendering intent with BPC off which implies that the
    other rendering intents and options are not available to you anymore
    - the issues with erratic target scans are not resolved and create a risk that you create pretty useless profiles
    - lots of recommendations and guides etc - 'how to print with Photoshop' - setttings - rendering
    intent - BPC - etc are not applicable to Spyder profiles
    - Datacolor/SpyderPrint offers lots of additional adjustments and tweaks to their profiles no other profiling software does
    - If you can overcome these issues a Datacolor profile can give you a pleasing print nevertheless
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  9. May 24, 2019
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Let me put it this way - Datacolor has created their own profiling biotop deviating from the industry standard definitions, they have implemented a kind of stronger black point compensation and offer you a range of adjustments for your profiles - look to the advanced profile editing options further down in this test report at the screen 'SpyderProof Edit'
    http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/spyder3print-sr-spyderprint-review/
    And there are even more adjustment options with the latest software version.
    Most of such changes will modify a profile that it won't fit anymore into any of the standardized rendering intents.
    I won't exclude that you will get some pleasing prints this way but it will get you into conflicts if you are used to use profiles created with other profiling software or use such software yourself.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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