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You know what the problem is with SpyderPrint?

Discussion in 'Paper & Other Media' started by Robert Graham, May 30, 2015.

  1. May 30, 2015
    Robert Graham

    Robert Graham Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Hello!

    I have both Colormunki Photo and SpyderPrint. I have been comparing the two. In order to do this, I have purchased ColorThink Pro. It is a bit buggy and idiosyncratic, but it works. I compared them in just two ways: gamut and color accuracy to a specified color list. My focus here is the SpyderPrint product. I am using a Mac that is running Yosemite.

    One problem with this product is reading the color patches reliably. I found a technique that produces the best results, even though I still may need to reread some patches. This took a little time to figure out. But I find reading the targets patch by patch in this way provides the most accurate results. The second problem is calibrating the colorimeter accurately. Sometimes I get good profiles from SpyderPrint, and sometimes I do not. I found the problem was that the colorimeter does not calibrate itself reliably. So the white point is off much of the time. I find in order to get a good profile, I have to use their profile editor to reset the white point. But I find using Lab colorspace for this is a bit of a "trial and error" at times. But once the white point is properly set, I then usually make just one or two *minor* adjustments in their editor. I then end up with a fairly accurate profile this way using the 225 patch target. However, even though the profile ends up being a bit more accurate than the profile created by Colormunki Photo, the gamut space is noticeably *smaller* with the SpyderPrint.

    How do I correct this problem? Read more patches using their "expert" 729 patch targets?

    Basically I am finding out using the SpyderPrint product a PITA to use. But perhaps after I put in the effort using targets with a large quantity of patches, I will end up with a profile that has a gamut equivalent to the Colormunki Photo, and is noticeable more accurate. Otherwise, I will end up using Colormunki for my profiles.

    So what do you guys think about all of this? Anyone having the same problems with SpyderPrint?

    Bob

    PS: I find that when I use SpyderPrint application to print targets, I find that in the printer dialog, the printer is selected for managing color instead of being greyed out. So I print the targets using the Adobe Color Printer Utility.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  2. May 30, 2015
    Emulator

    Emulator Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Hi Robert, several of the members here, including me, have followed a similar path. It is tempting to go for the Spyder range, it appears to be cheaper, but most change to ColorMunki or I1, after a while. I used to get straw colour bias on most Spyder profiles, which despite the controls, was impossible to correct.

    The next step you may find worth trying, is to use the Colormunki with the ArgyllCMS and DispcalGUI. This opens up a whole new field of option. It is easier to use than appears to be the case and there are a number of threads on PK to help, if you do a search.

    The results are excellent.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
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  3. May 30, 2015
    3dogs

    3dogs Printer Master

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    This is an ongoing question. I was advised early not to go with Spyder so my current device for calibration is the Munki for all profiles.
    BUT
    I just bought a Eizo CS240 monitor. Eizo include ColourNavigator that performs automatic self calibration. They supply and recommend a Spyder unit for the start up calibration, saying that it is going to do a better job than the Munki for that task and ongoing. I am not convinced.
    Fortunately, I have a second Eizo that had ColourNavigator till I uninstalled it in favour of Xrite munki calibration.
    I have just connected up the new monitor and so will be able to make a comparison easily......going to be interesting.
     
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  4. May 30, 2015
    Robert Graham

    Robert Graham Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Yes, AgryllCMS seems the way to go here. I tried the "expert" multipage targets, and this expanded the gamut in a significant way. But I had to make allot of adjustments to get a more accurate profile. But the gamut with SpyderPrint is still smaller than what profile is produced by Colormunki. So is it worth the effort? I do not think so. I think using AgryllCMS should not require much more effort than this, and I will end up with a better profile. The trick for me is setting Colormunki up to read each patch individually.

    Bob
     
  5. May 30, 2015
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    Robert,

    my experience with Spyder print mirrors yours.

    I was never able to get a satisfactory printer profile even after a couple of months of help front their technical support. Their final resolution was to declare I was not following their instructions properly and wash their hands of my problems. BAsic problem many read error and non linear "warmish" colour cast that I could not eliminate.

    About four years ago bought the Colormunki, and from the get go got usable and consistent profiles.

    On another site Andrew Rodney, who literally wrote the book on colour management decrribes the colormunki as surprisingly good fofr its 50+50 patches. Goes on to say you will be hard pressed to be able to discern the differences between the CM and X-Rite's more expensive professional models.

    I wish I had paid the extra bucks and purchased Color Think instead of the Gamutvision I am using. I find Gamutvision notonly buggy, but deeply flawed in some modes. I guess I am the paying the penalty for being a cheapskate.

    My objective if to improve the quality and consistency of my print making. Sometime I think I have a handle`` on what I am doing, then learn something new, and the whole colour universe expands exponentially, and I realise I know nothing.

    RS
     
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  6. May 30, 2015
    3dogs

    3dogs Printer Master

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    Need to add..
    ColourNavigator is a monitor profiler only and Eizo believe Spyder does that well, but is not suited to paper profiling.
    Reason is Spyder is a colorimeter and its strong suit is looking at colour, whereas munki is a spectrophotometer and its strong suit is measuring light transmission.

    Using Spyder for print profiles is like using a knife blade as a phillips head screwdriver. Its half a cross and roughly the right shape and folks that dont know any better try to use the blade because some fella that sells knives and only sees a sale cares not if you have to put it away and go buy the right tool for the job at extra cost later on as you get wiser.
    Problem is other forums are full of folks that got sucked in and are too embarassed to face up to it so they say how wonderful it is......
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
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  7. May 30, 2015
    3dogs

    3dogs Printer Master

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    @Roy Sletcher
    Roy followed your comment to Color Think and had a bit of a read.....
    What do you use it for, know you use another product, but what is their purpose?

    Cheers

    Andrew
     
  8. May 30, 2015
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Gamutvision is another stand alone program to show icm-profile properties, display the gamut, show out of gamut areas of an image and much more, it is not directly comparable to ColorThink (Pro), but a kind of. Some of such functions are part of profiling software packages, e.g. from X-Rite like the i1 profiling suites, or formerly GretagMcbeth with the older Monaco Profiler suite including Gamutworks. Some of those allow 'editing' of profiles, e.g. changing the color temp of the viewing light, changing the end point of the gray axis from paper white to neutral white, averaging multiple reads of the patches and this and that, but you typically don't go into the tables and correct numerical values there.
     
  9. May 30, 2015
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    Fully agree. I think that the give-away clue concerning Spyder Print is that they provide a module to MODIFY the colour rendition of the profile it produces. Begs the question ``what value producing an output profile to a given standard, when the vendor encourages you to modify it to your preferred taste after the event.

    RS
     
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  10. May 30, 2015
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    Not at my home computer right now. Will send a couple of screen shots later. Possibly somebody can show me if I am going wrong, or correct any erroneous methodology in my procedures.

    RS
    Learn for understanding NOT agreement or compliance to current dogma
     

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