HowTo: apples vs apples speed test for bulk photo printing?

[ghwellsjr]

When I was doing my speed comparison test between two wide format printers

Thanks ... interesting that the thread immediately went OT and never returned from being hijacked. If it would be of interest, I recall doing some A3+ timings with the 9000-2, and can provide them as an update to your 2007 thread. Obviously, we would be printing different files, so it would be "apples and oranges"

Do you still happen to have the file you used? I could make the same print with different settings while timing.

I uploaded the picture that I used for my comparison test to the original thread linked above.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I was careful to use a fast computer.

Again thanks. That's also been my observation. I would have thought that once the data is pumped through the USB cable, the computer wouldn't be all that involved. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. Makes sense as I believe the print-driver has to figure out what every value of not just every pixel, but every dot needs to be. 300 ppi becomes 2400-4800 dpi?

It is my understanding that the printer driver communicates with the printer at 600x600 dpi. The purpose of all that extra dpi is simply so that the printer can create fine gradations of colors.

When I did my tests, I simply printed 3 copies and timed from the start of the second copy to the start of the third copy. I wasn't concerned about all the extra issues that would be variable when doing an actual large run of different images. I don't know how you could characterize all those issues, let alone try to compare the difference between two printers. I simply wanted to establish a baseline.

I also don't think it matters what the image is as long as it doesn't have areas of pure white but that is something you could test for if you are so inclinded. Same with all the other suggestions you made. You have so many more ideas than I could attempt to characterize.

 

[l_d_allan]

Oh BTW just to split hairs here, A4 and Letter are not the same physical size, one is longer and thinner then the other...
A4 - 8.3 X 11.7 Inches
US Letter - 8.5 X 11 Inches

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry to be contributing to erroneous info you find on the internet.

FWIW:
I often make two prints on one letter-size sheet, and cut them in half. That works out to 5.5x8.5", which is close, but not exactly 2:3 aspect ratio. So clearly I should have known that 8.5x11" wasn't in the "A" category of being able to fold in half and having the same aspect ratio. Mea culpa.

 

[l_d_allan]

I also don't think it matters what the image is as long as it doesn't have areas of pure white but that is something you could test for if you are so inclined.

That actually would interest me to test ... and it wouldn't have to be with expensive A3+ (13x19") prints. Cheap rebate paper from Staples would work, or even plain paper and "fib" about the MediaType to the print-driver? Would 10 prints of a 5400x3600 image take longer than the same image at 2100x1400? 1500x1000? 900x600? Does it matter to print from huge .tif files or smaller .jpg files (once the file has been delivered to the printer via USB)? From DNG's? Would a RJ45 wired connection be faster than USB?

Same with all the other suggestions you made. You have so many more ideas than I could attempt to characterize.

I do want to have a deeper understanding of just how printing works. I am ignorant about so much of photography, but especially printing. And having only "one degree of freedom" per test is worthwhile. To me, details matter, but I realize I can get to the point of "majoring in minor". Mea culpa.

Gosh I love this stuff!

I love these kinds of conditioned experiments !

 

[l_d_allan]

I really don't know what's the deal with my printhead but after ~80-100 prints magenta or yellow suddenly disappears completely.

Again, I'm ignorant about CISS. It does sound like an ink flow problem. I wonder if the print-head would "recover" if you just waited 5 minutes instead of rinsing the print-head? But I suppose you've tried that?

Or it might be possible the print-head is over-heating? I believe I've read somewhere that there is an overall sensor for the print-head over-heating. (sorry ... no link). That might explain what is going on.

You really might consider starting a separate thread on NS to discuss this issue. Also, I assume you are aware that there are almost certainly heavier duty inkjets than your iP4700 that would probably be significantly faster. I'm ignorant about Epson, but my impression is that Epson print-heads are superior in some respects to Canon print-heads, especially for heavy-duty printing.

Irv Weiner has an wide format Epson 3880 that he raves about. I believe the print-head has a special coating to reduce clogging. Pricey, but perhaps worth considering since you are printing so much?

Also, I'm curious what paper you use with what media-type setting? Mostly matte that you referrred to? What vendor? SKU? I'm always looking for ways to reduce paper costs now that ink is essentially free.

And your large syringe that fits the print-head inlet port is of interest to me. A lot ... actually. Link to see what you use? Got any spares you'd be interested in selling?

 

[crexas]

When the color is gone - it's gone. Does not matter what I do - let it sit over night, do some deep cleans. The only thing that helps is pushing hot water through the clogged color. Works every time and doesn't take too long - I won't be pursuing this problem any further to figure out the real cause because soon my Canons will be replaced. I have decided to go for Epson R2880 with ciss and dye ink. 3880 is a bit too expensive for me and even if I had the money to buy 3880, I'd go straight for 4880 for it's original factory ciss.

I now that my Canons are incapable of heavy duty printing, I had started another thread about it and given all advises I have decided to move away from Canon and start my friendship with Epson because CISS is my only way to go.

I print on matte paper on matte media settings. My paper isn't a normal photo paper. It's quite thick (about 250g/m2) and it is printable only on one side. The other side is covered with special material that is used for other purpose. It is not real photo paper and isn't exactly used for printing photos. What I mean is that probably none of you in this forum would want to print on my paper since printing on it is just the first stage of what my final "creation" looks like and that paper is exactly made for that purpose. That is why I don't think that more details on my vendor or sku is necessary.

About the syringe. It's not something rare or special. It is just a bigger version of a syringe that comes with refill kits / ciss. Here it is compared to that standard syringe.



And here's how it sits on the printhead:



I have only 2 of those syringes so I won't be selling them. I don't remember where I got them... I've had them since... like forever. But what I remember is that I had to cut off a small part of the syringe tip because it was too small to fit on the printhead.

BTW the printhead in 2nd picture is an old one. And yes - I use silicon seals on my working printhead.

 

[l_d_allan]

I print on matte paper on matte media settings. My paper isn't a normal photo paper. It's quite thick (about 250g/m2)

Now that could have something to do with your problem. With a MediaType of Matte, the print-driver is expecting a very thin photo paper with a thickness of only 45 lb / 170 g/m2.

Try setting Prevent-Paper-Abrasion to ON and also related info from Canon MP480 manual.

Let me know if you aren't clear how to accomplish this, and why this might matter. My hypothesis is that your print-head could be barely, barely scrapping your paper. Over time, the nozzles could get clogged with "shavings" of paper coating. The hot-water rinse might be flushing out some but not all of the paper coating.

BTW, I am curious if you have been able to get Canon to replace your print-head under warranty? Does the CISS invalidate your warranty?

 

[crexas]

Sometimes I do use the paper abrasion prevention function. I have some other media that I sometimes use and the problem with it is that it's not so flat and when printing I can hear the printhead touching my media. Then I turn on that function, printhead is raised and everything is OK again. Haven't tried that with my usual matte media yet as that function slows down print speed by half when using normal print quality. It starts to print as if it was set to high quality, although setting to high quality and abrasion prevention doesn't increase print time of high quality speed.

Thanks for this info. Haven't thought about it earlier. I will try that next week as I've got nothing more to print today. I will post the results.

As for the Canon warranty for my printheads - Canon gives a 1 year warranty for my IP4700. I buy about 6 printers in a year. That would result in 6 printheads returned and (hopefully) replaced every year. I really don't know if I want to go that way because using CISS and 3rd party ink really does void my warranty. Of course I can clean the printer up, put back original carts and send it for replacement when printhead fails. But it just wouldn't be fair and in time it surely would raise some suspicions about my usage of printer. I'm pushing these printers to their limits and I shouldn't expect more than what I get from them. Now if I bought a printer and it failed after ~100 prints - then it would be a different story.

A few weeks ago I bought the newer IP4850. I needed a new printer and IP4700 is old news today, not manufactured any more. I wrote in another topic about my adventure with new ciss and ink (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6458) and that printhead failed after 10-20 prints. OCP ink. Didn't want to blame the ink so I took it to service center and they confirmed that printhead needed to be replaced - nothing helped to clear the magenta clog. Not my hot water, not even whatever Canon does at their service center to clear the clogs. They had to ship it to another country for replacement so I will have to wait a bit longer to get it back.

About those warranty things. I was reading the Epson warranty conditions one day on the internet and found an interesting line there which said: "This warranty covers only normal use... ...Using this product for continuous production or similar highduty purposes is not considered normal use..."

I will post the whole transcript here.

System: "Thank you for connecting to Epsons chat service."
Session Started with Agent (xxx)
Me: "Hello. I want to ask a question regarding printer warranty. A quote from Epson warranty conditions "This warranty covers only normal use... ...Using this product for continuous production or similar highduty purposes is not considered normal use...&q"
Agent: "Thank you for contacting Epsons UK Customer Interaction Centre. My name is xxx"
Agent: "Im sorry but part of your initial message is missing, please can you repeat it for me?"
Me: "Well I quoted the part from Epson printer warranty manual. How is that highduty calculated? Because I am at a loss right now. I want to buy a printer and I do not know how many prints I can make during a month and still meet the warranty conditions"
Me: "last time I contacted you, you told me that you do not provide recommended monthly duty cycles for your printers. So how do I know when my printing usage is no longer considered "normal"?"
Me: "I am specifically interested in Epson Stylus Photo R2880 printer"
Agent: "this is referring to a continuous ink system being used on our printers which will void the warranty as you will have modified the printer to allow this. We do not have a set monthly 'allowance' for printing when using the printer as provided."
Me: "oh. so as long as all parts and resources used are Epson original, then I will not void warranty throughout the warranty period?"
Me: "and it does not matter how many prints I make during that time?"
Agent: "It does not matter no, you can print as many as you wish as long as the printer is used within specification you wil not void the warranty."

 

[l_d_allan]

Haven't tried that with my usual matte media yet as that function slows down print speed by half when using normal print quality. It starts to print as if it was set to high quality, although setting to high quality and abrasion prevention doesn't increase print time of high quality speed.

Have you tried setting the MediaType to PlusGlossy2? That makes the print-driver assume a thickness corresponding to 69 lb / 260 g/m2, which seems like a much closer fit to your not-really-matte-paper.

I'm pretty sure this will increase the distance between the print-head and paper, and reduce the chance of scrapping. Then you could use:
Quality:Standard
Prevent-Printer-Abrasion: OFF

and retain higher speed.

Two other factors occur to me that might be going on:
1. Is the not-really-matte paper bowed and not really flat? IIRC, I've heard print-head scrapping from some really cheap 4x6" paper that was definitely warped. The paper transport mechanism is supposed to handle this, but at some point, the paper may be too warped / bowed to be usable due to scrapping from the print-head.

2. I cringed when you wrote that you use hot water to rinse the print-head. How hot? From posts I've read, this can damage internal seals and/or glue within the print-head. My practice is to use water that is no hotter than you would use to take a shower in. Certainly not scalding. (sorry ... no link ... try a search)

 

[crexas]

Well I've figured out when exactly do my colors disappear. It happens to both magenta and yellow at the same time. And it happens right after printer does it's auto-cleaning cycle (after about 30-32 printed pages). I have 2 printers IP4700 and IP4850 and both suffer from the same thing. IP4850 is newer and a little less used so sometimes it survives one auto-clean and prints normally until the second. But IP4700 always fails after 1 cycle. Afaik there is no way to disable auto cleaning for these printers so I'm stuck with flushing heads with hot water after each auto clean cycle.

This probably has something to do with my ink, but I don't have a better option right now. I clean my pritnheads with near-boiling temperature water. Lower temps are unable to clear the blockage. I don't have any special alcohol to soak my printheads with so this is the only way for me. The bad part of it is that after some time it gets harder and harder to push water through and eventually it gets so blocked, that I don't have the strength to push hot water through. That's when I know my printhead is blocked to death.

At first I was worried too that such hot water could do damage but now I've done this hundreds of times (not kidding - I do ~4 on each printer each day) and nothing is out of the ordinary. No leaks, no other problems.

The deadly blockage could also happen because I use simple tap-water, not distilled. Micro particles could end up stuck in printheads and building up each time I flush them.