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Gamutvision etc.

Discussion in 'Printing Photos and Photo Software' started by Roy Sletcher, May 31, 2015.

  1. May 31, 2015
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    Hi Andrew,

    To elaborate on my comments about Gamutvision made earlier today.

    First I want to retract some of the bad comments I made about inconsistencies in some of the Gamutvision modules. I have BEEN unable to to reproduce some of the tests I did a few month back.

    I stand by the buggy comment as the CRASH 002 screenshot below show an effect I get with some regularity.

    The second screens shot shows a the wire frame outline of the aRGB colour space of my monitor plotted against the output of a colormunki made profile to my Epson 3880 (Solid colour) printing on a Red River Arctic Polar Gloss paper. The profile is 3D, and we can only see the 2D effect on the front of this image, but it is abundantly clear I can print a significant amount of blue green saturated colour that could exist in the image , but not be visible on my monitor. If we could see the back of the plot would also be able to see that a small amount of red and yellow has the same effect of being printable but not visible in the aRGB colour space on my monitor.

    The Granger Rainbow - top right will show any anomalies in the gamut plot br showing incorrect transition or wrong colours. I deleted one profile because a solid black vertical strip in the middle of the blue band.

    There is a lot more to it, but would be some what tedious to detail it all here.

    I guess this is a long winded way of saying I use these features when prepping and soft proofing my images, comparing profiles, and generally trying to improve my prints.

    Does it help - I like to think so, but cannot give an empirical answer.

    At this stage I am not looking for a radical silver bullet break through. Most advances I now make are more incremental than revolutionary.

    Enough for now.

    RS

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. May 31, 2015
    3dogs

    3dogs Printer Master

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    So if I am understanding correctly, it is a Graphics package that provide a visual of :

    The colours that my 3880 is capable of reproducing and compare it with the image I am wanting to print. Inside a cage are the colours the printer can print, outside are colours it can't print?
    It also gives me a visual of how much of my current image the Eizo is showing?
    And within all this what colours I have that are out of gamut?

    Added:

    Roy I think this subject warrants a thread of its own, I think some of the Argylle folks may have input too ( I am in hopes) as it looks to be a fascinating way of looking at a persons work in progress and there would be a fair bit to sort through before I purchased.

    Cheers,

    Andrew
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  3. May 31, 2015
    Emulator

    Emulator Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    I agree with @3dogs, this should be moved to a new thread, to avoid disrupting Robert's thread, perhaps Roy and Andrew you can start a Gamutvision thread and move your posts there.

    Roy, you clearly have a problem, which should not exit. @RogerB has a 3880 and an expertise with Gamutvision, so he is likely to provide the quickest solution.
     
  4. May 31, 2015
    3dogs

    3dogs Printer Master

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  5. May 31, 2015
    Emulator

    Emulator Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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  6. May 31, 2015
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    Good point and I agree!

    Possibly Roger could add some input as he is knowledgeable on this issue, and I think we need some additional opinions.

    At this point I am concluding my problems are self induced, and not the fault of the software. I must confess I have been less than diligent in learning the finer point. mostly confining my activities to very simple comparisons between diferent profiles on the same stock with a view to determine efficacy of each.

    I know most professional users seem to prefer the Color Think Utility, but it is more than three times the price.

    RS
     
  7. Jun 1, 2015
    3dogs

    3dogs Printer Master

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    I guess the first question I am going to have to research is this.
    Is investing in this software for me, its easy to have a interest in fascinating toys, but quite another gaining the knowledge to rename the device a necessary tool.
    As no one has contradicted my assumptions the first thing to get a handle on is this......Eizo tell me that the monotors they sold me are able to display 98% RGB
    So now what exacly does that mean in reality AND if it turns out to be just what it says why would a person invest $300+ to see 2% that is not showing........obviously its not that simple!
     
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  8. Jun 1, 2015
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    Hi Andrew,
    All good questions! My "NOT SO HUMBLE" thoughts in sequence:

    1: "Is this software for me?" - NO unless you have an identified need for, and can use, the information it provides. If you have an interest in the subject do more investigation, which is not easy as the subject is obscure, and much of the lay information on the internat is blatantly misleading and even incorrect on some occasions.

    2: having an Eizo monitor means you have a good start with a quality monitor. That does not imply it is correctly setup, or even meets manufacturers minimum specification. However that is still much better than buying the big box store $99.00 special of the day.

    3: Should you spend $300 for a 2% gamut increase is really not the question. Bear in mind that aRGB falls far short of the gamut of human vision. So again my thought is don't spend the money until you are sure what you are getting in return. We have not even mentioned WORKFLOW which is also a big part of the equation.

    At the risk of unleashing a firestorm on this site I will make the definitive statement that our human colour vision and colour judgment is highly inefficient. To make rational colour judgments we need verifiable and reproducible data as we cannot rely on our eyes. Without question 99% of the participants in the visual arts would vehemently disagree that statement. As I have said before on this site - "Who are you going to believe - ME or your lying eyes".

    Hence the need for some form of standardized colour measurement and tabulation. Unfortunately the methodology does not come cheap and the amateur/enthusiast level instruments at this time are not reliable. It is getting cheaper and better so save your money, learn much, and get ready for a future purchase. The next generation of Eizo or NEC reference monitors will be cheaper and better.

    If I have not confused you already I am not explaining it well. :(

    RS
     
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  9. Jun 2, 2015
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    "RGB color space or RGB color system, constructs all the colors from the combination of the Red, Green and Blue colors.


    The red, green and blue use 8 bits each, which have integer values from 0 to 255. This makes 256*256*256=16777216 possible colors.
    "

    Estimates on the number of colors perceived by human vision are ~10,000,000 colors. Some have guestimated the top end at ~7,000,000.

    So, the Eizo displaying 98% of ~16,000,000 possible colors still far exceeds the capabilities of our eyes (and some of our wallets).

    Do you like the quality of the image on the monitor? Does the monitor function well enough for your purposes - graphics, text, gaming, single vs multipurpose? Does the monitor calibrate sufficiently for you? Is the price acceptable?

    Read on Eizo's web site, Eizo recommends calibrating more than once in a calibration session to improve accuracy. In other words, calibrate the monitor 3 or 4 times in a row.
     
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  10. Jun 2, 2015
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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