Do I have a problem with dry sponges

[Tin Ho]

Mikling, do you have anything to say about your statement that the upper sponge is more porous? No I am absolutely not an expert. You are supposed to be the expert. I would like to hear some words of evidence that the upper sponge is more porous than the bottom one. Please answer this first before you move on to something else. I would like to know if I really screwed up on this.

Please also explain why Canon OEM cartridges all leave some emptiness in the upper sponge but you are telling us if I fill all the way to the top it is not going to be a problem. All the advises from this forum says to not do that. There was a term invented by Pharmacist "milking the cartridge". Why did Pharmacist made it up to fool all of us? I have followed that advise for years and it has never given any problems though.

Except the 2nd from the right, Mikling, your cartridges are not filled like Rod's are. In Rod's cartridges there is almost no ink in the upper sponge.

Of course I do not know anything about the felt that is covered by one of the 16 patents Canon holds for their ink cartridges. No I am not knowledgeable at all about those patents. I just happened to image that the felt is made of laminated fibers running horizontally. Of course I absolutely have no idea why I can not tear the felt in the direction from the top toward the bottom but I can do that horizontally in the direction from the front to the rear. I just imagined that I can separate the felt in the direction of left to right. Of course it is all just my imagination that the ink likes to flow horizontally.

 

[rodbam]

Have a beer sit back and relax.

Thanks Mike. I don't know what came over me as normally my perceived problems just disappear when I have a beer or two & I completely forgot this until I read your excellent advice
I will now consider these cartridges as printer ready & I will just keep a close eye on them.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[mikling]

TH

You always want resources used but never want to support the cause with a donation. In any case here it is if you don't believe,

The upper SPONGE is if you can tell slightly different. They appear to be of similar material BUT the texture and stiffness is distinctly different. The upper sponge feels stiffer and coarser. And this is OBVIOUS when you refill and watch, The lower SPONGE while is also fibrous has a softer texture. This might be from smaller strands or more curls. I can't tell but the texture is so obviously different when it is touched. An analogue is if you have handled standard polyester batting and hollofil or crimped polyester batting. The softness is distinctly different. The open and stiff texture of the upper is not going to have as much capillary action as the bottom layer, hence the ability of the bottom layer to "grab" liquid from the top and not the the opposite.

If you look at the upper sponge, you'll notice that the cut is clean and remains sharp and this is indicative of s harder texture. The lower sponges seems fuzzer on the edge and this indicated perhaps a softer and not as rigid texture.

Now what is also deceptive if you're not careful about the texture is that the cartridge has a distinct wedge that further compresses the bottom material when it is placed inside. So when it is removed it opens up and "might" fool someone that that the openness is close between the top and bottom.

No cartridge is going to be filled exactly like another but the reasonable person will see that Rod's third cartridge on the left has a streak of ink shooting upwards and at the end as well.

Why? My theory is that it is due to the placement of the fibrous material in that it is possible the ends are more compressed and thus the wicking action takes place easier. Similarly you will sometimes see what might be voids in the "sponges" that doesn't seem to want to have ink. Why? defective material or slight irregulairties within the material. My cartridge as shown and the yellow one from Rod exhibit some of this. I have others show this as well but they never did cause any issues in operation.

YMMV.

 

[mikling]

This is after a few German trials on the bottom sponge. Gauge used was 20. Affect performance? not really but not comforting either though.

 

[mikling]

The top one is the upper sponge and the bottom one is the lower sponge. The lower one is compressed when placed inside the cartridge.

Take a look at your CLI-8 or BCI-6 and you'll the wedge.

If you look at the fibres on the edges you can see the textural differences between the sponges.


QED.

 

[rodbam]

The two sponges look different on my screen & lets face it these sponges are not made to go in the space shuttle so some irregularities are to be expected like you said.
I will be interested if Tin Ho will post the same sort of picture from his electron microscope.
Did you have to post the shot of the sponge with the needle groove in it Mike It was a case of out of sight out of mind for me but I can see me top filling from now on

 

[slocumeddie]

There are many reasons Canon does not fill up the top sponge. You are ignoring those important reasons to make a statement like this one.

Tin Ho.........could you please list a few of the many reasons Canon does not fill up the top sponge ?

Thanks !

 

[Tin Ho]

Mikling, now you are catching up your home work. I appreciate that.

 

[stratman]

This is after a few German trials on the bottom sponge. Gauge used was 20. Affect performance? not really but not comforting either though.

"Not really" seems an odd way of putting things. Do you have evidence that the groove formed in the lower sponge by the needle affects performance?

My opinion is that the groove is neither comforting nor not comforting. What is comforting is consistent performance, and the Durchstich method is a proven refill method that allows the printer-cartridge nexus to perform as expected. Jimbo123's recent post of over 200 cumulative refills using the Durchstich method is proof, as are my experiences and many others on this forum, that except for the hypothesized - or at least rarely occurring - air lock in the groove, the groove has not been shown to affect performance.

I have enjoyed this thread, especially the photos you have posted with your discussions. Thanks for those contributions and to all as well. This may be the best sponge thread yet.

 

[Tin Ho]

Canon holds more than a dozen of patents (both in US and international) on its ink cartridges. The two sponge design provides better ink flow regulation than a simple one piece design used in for example some old Epson and HP ink cartridges. One of the patents is on the sponge. The sponge is not really a sponge. It is a laminated micro fibers running in the horizontal direction which is for the purpose of providing a natural path for the ink to flow from the exit of the reservoir tank toward the ink outlet.

The two piece design separates the ink contained in the upper sponge from the bottom one. This prevents higher ink flow when the sponge contains more ink when the cartridge is new or slightly used. Ink can still flow across the gap between the two pieces. But the gap between the two pieces of the sponge gives enough barrier effect to prevent higher ink flow when the cartridge is full of ink.

The key to understand how the ink flows in the laminated micro fiber felt (sponge) is often overlooked. Just keep in mind that ink (a liquid) tends to flow along the surface of the fiber, but not across a gap or from one surface to another. In HP ink cartridges the sponge is indeed a synthetic sponge. Gravity drives the ink to flow downward toward the print head. In Canon cartridges the laminated micro fiber design allows a spongeless reservoir to contain more ink yet provides sufficient ink flow regulation.

Chinese copycat cheap crap compatibles can't copy patented Canon design. The sponge in those crappy compatibles is simple cheap artificial sponge. There is no ink flow regulation. There is no mechanism to help directing the ink in the reservoir tank to flow toward the ink outlet of the cartridge. It relies completely on the bird feeding bottle principle for the ink cartridge to work. No doubt there have been so many print head clogging problems from people who used those crappy compatibles.

I am sure there is much more hiding behind Canon's patents. It is insane that a reseller of a popular made in USA ink kept on his bluffing without doing the homework. I have said enough. I am sure somebody else will come out to stop him from more hypes next. Why are there so many who want to pay a reseller located outside of USA for a product made in USA? Will Chinese come to USA to buy products made in China? The only person who might actually do that is Slocumeddie.