what printer and CISS should I get?

d1hamby

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I would stick to the HP Officejet Pro 8500 Premier All-in-One, even though it is more expensive the paper handling may be worth it.

I would go with the largest tanks for the volume you are printing:
http://www.adaptiveink.com/pricing.html#tanks

When you buy ink buy enough to last no more than 2 years and the largest volume to save the most.
 

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paper handling is not a problem. I'm gonna try the officejet pro 8000 since it's half price and it does the same job at printing. and if something goes wrong I can just buy another one and save a lot.

what's the difference between ink and pigment? and that adaptiveink thing doesn't have a problem with chip resets? and what waste ink kit would you recommend?
 

d1hamby

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Dye ink is water soluble and pigment is not. Dye ink gives higher quality photos though. For fliers I'd recommend pigment. You cannot easily switch between the two. They tend to coagulate when they get together.
 

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d1hamby said:
Dye ink is water soluble and pigment is not. Dye ink gives higher quality photos though. For fliers I'd recommend pigment. You cannot easily switch between the two. They tend to coagulate when they get together.
Whether or not a particular pigment and dye ink will coagulate or precipitate depends on several factors: the ionic strength of the total solution, the charge of the pigment particles and the charge of the dye molecules or any surfactants, preservatives in one or the other ink to be mixed with. In most cases the risk is not very high, but you should try this on a very small scale (let's say a few drops, see and wait). I mixed pigmented and dye inks before and till now no ill effects seem to be detectable even in the long term. Be careful with mixing acidic with alkaline inks, because the particular pH value in a ink is optimized to keep for example the charged pigment particles into solution and to prevent it from coagulating together. When the pH value is neutralized the charged particles cannot repel one another and will begin to coagulate...
 

mikling

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d1hamby said:
Dye ink is water soluble and pigment is not. Dye ink gives higher quality photos though. For fliers I'd recommend pigment. You cannot easily switch between the two. They tend to coagulate when they get together.
There is a presupposition from the old days that dye ink gives higher quality photos. In the last 36 hours, I have proven this to be totally untrue right in front my eyes. My last iteration of creating a pigment inkset that emulates the Epson Ultra High Definition Claria has far exceeded my own expectations.

Let me say this and it may sound unrealistic but I will risk for being called whatever. The particular inkset was custom tinted by myself over a period of about two months. Today I printed three prints for a customer who will be switching over his SP1400 to this inkset which I will be calling KLARIAH. It is made up of the latest components from the K4 inkset. It loses nothing to dye in any area. It matches vibrancy, tonality has a wider range and it stomps all over the dye in in shadow detail. Even as pigment it gives nothing up. Genuine Epson Claria cannot compete in the end result. Looking at the prints this afternoon, on Premium Luster paper, you cannot tell the difference between the two until you start checking the details out and you start to see where blacks and darker tones and areas on dye ink are crushed and the KLARIAH pigment yields exceptional detail. Some have said pigment looks dim. Not this KLARIAH pigment inkset. Users of the newer generation dye printers using Claria and especially users of older pigment printers have remarked how the prints look nice and bright with Claria dye. Well they can get the same with pigment now.
It is pretty close to drop in compatible and for many users, it is good enough. It is so close to the original CLARIA that 225 patch profiles are identical in output to 1000 patch profiles even when viewed critically.

I am not sure one can say dye ink gives higher quality photos anymore. If anything to the trained eye, the overly contrasty look of dye gives an initial impression of higher quality but on further inspection, one might change their opinion.
 

d1hamby

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mikling said:
d1hamby said:
Dye ink is water soluble and pigment is not. Dye ink gives higher quality photos though. For fliers I'd recommend pigment. You cannot easily switch between the two. They tend to coagulate when they get together.
There is a presupposition from the old days that dye ink gives higher quality photos. In the last 36 hours, I have proven this to be totally untrue right in front my eyes. My last iteration of creating a pigment inkset that emulates the Epson Ultra High Definition Claria has far exceeded my own expectations.

Let me say this and it may sound unrealistic but I will risk for being called whatever. The particular inkset was custom tinted by myself over a period of about two months. Today I printed three prints for a customer who will be switching over his SP1400 to this inkset which I will be calling KLARIAH. It is made up of the latest components from the K4 inkset. It loses nothing to dye in any area. It matches vibrancy, tonality has a wider range and it stomps all over the dye in in shadow detail. Even as pigment it gives nothing up. Genuine Epson Claria cannot compete in the end result. Looking at the prints this afternoon, on Premium Luster paper, you cannot tell the difference between the two until you start checking the details out and you start to see where blacks and darker tones and areas on dye ink are crushed and the KLARIAH pigment yields exceptional detail. Some have said pigment looks dim. Not this KLARIAH pigment inkset. Users of the newer generation dye printers using Claria and especially users of older pigment printers have remarked how the prints look nice and bright with Claria dye. Well they can get the same with pigment now.
It is pretty close to drop in compatible and for many users, it is good enough. It is so close to the original CLARIA that 225 patch profiles are identical in output to 1000 patch profiles even when viewed critically.

I am not sure one can say dye ink gives higher quality photos anymore. If anything to the trained eye, the overly contrasty look of dye gives an initial impression of higher quality but on further inspection, one might change their opinion.
That's cool,:) sounds like you should patent the ink. Have you checked for precipitation and do you get complete water insolubility when it dries?

Hope we're not too far off topic.
 

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adaptiveink sounds very expensive when compared to other CISS and inks. I'm specially concerned with ink refills. they only have available 120ml refills, or 120, 360, 720ml tanks. ofc tanks cost more. but you can't buy 720ml refills for the tank, you would have to buy 6x120ml refills or a new 720ml tank, which is expensive.
 

d1hamby

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__-_-_-__ said:
adaptiveink sounds very expensive when compared to other CISS and inks. I'm specially concerned with ink refills. they only have available 120ml refills, or 120, 360, 720ml tanks. ofc tanks cost more. but you can't buy 720ml refills for the tank, you would have to buy 6x120ml refills or a new 720ml tank, which is expensive.
Not that expensive if you look at the volume of ink and the fact that you don't have to refill cartridges. Hope you can find a better solution.
 

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I still haven't bought any system.
This turned out to be a lot more difficult then I expected.
d1hamby said:
__-_-_-__ said:
adaptiveink sounds very expensive when compared to other CISS and inks. I'm specially concerned with ink refills. they only have available 120ml refills, or 120, 360, 720ml tanks. ofc tanks cost more. but you can't buy 720ml refills for the tank, you would have to buy 6x120ml refills or a new 720ml tank, which is expensive.
Not that expensive if you look at the volume of ink and the fact that you don't have to refill cartridges. Hope you can find a better solution.
What volume of ink?
What is the price for the work of refilling cartridges? For me it's zero.
Sure it has some advantages and it's very cool but I don't care about that. I just want the lowest price per page in colour.
it's very expensive compared to other solutions.


Also, can someone please enlighten me about the chip thing? (about #88 and #940 HP cartridges)

"The way the printer treats this expiration date doesn't depend upon whether or not you have refilled the cartridge. If you refill the cartridge twenty times - or never refill the cartridge - the cartridge will become inoperable after the expiration date. However, this is not such a big deal, since two years or so on a cartridge often means you will have refilled the cartridge a dozen times or more."
is this really true for this case?




I've found the HP Officejet Pro K550 which appears to have a good price per page too.
I seam like an HP fanboy but I'm not... I couldn't find other brand with a lower cost per page inkjet printer. If anyone knowns something better please tell me.


The comparation can't be made by looking at cartridge prices, because I'll use a CISS so what counts is the lowest quantity of ink per page.
It must be ml of ink per yeld. (I'm also just comparing colour, so black would be the same)

HP Officejet Pro K550 #88XL = 17.1ml = 1700pages = 99 pages per 1ml

HP Officejet Pro 8000 940XL = 16ml = 1400pages = 87,5 pages per 1ml

There are many associeted costs like electricity etc but I won't consider them.
But what about printheads? this can be a major problem. How often printheads need to be replaced? That's only answer I need before I buy and start printing.
 
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