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what printer and CISS should I get?

Discussion in 'Everything Else InkJet Printer Related' started by __-_-_-__, Apr 10, 2010.

  1. Apr 10, 2010
    __-_-_-__

    __-_-_-__ Getting Fingers Dirty

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    I've been reading the forum for some time. I found out a wonderful new world of ink. But I still have some doubts.
    I want to buy a printer + CISS.

    Don't mind about black/white cost per page.
    I'll be printing about 3000-9000colour fliers per month.
    I'm just interested in the lowest colour cost per page possible.
    It has to have a good quality, not impressive or so, but it's going to have some pictures so it can't have a poor quality.
    I don't care nothing about speed, it can be 1ppm.




    So in order to fill those requirements I've been searching for the printer that consumes less ink per page.
    I've also searched some laser colour printers buying toner refills but it doesn't seem to compensate.
    I've seen that the HP 8000/8500 series advertise 50% cost reduction from laser colour printers. While I hate hp, they advertise that a XL cartridge (which has 16ml of ink) can print 1400 pages. It seams like a good deal to buy one and install a CISS. Of course this has an added cost because printheads need to be replaced from time to time. but still...

    So from your great experience, what printer consumes less ink and CISS should I buy? Also, where to buy good ink at a good price? and finally, what is a waste ink kit? I've read a lot about it but I don't known what are they for Mad

    thank you for your help
     
  2. Apr 10, 2010
    ghwellsjr

    ghwellsjr Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    I can't answer your questions about a good printer to use CISS with but I will answer about the waste ink. Whenever a printer does a purge, prime or cleaning cycle, either on its own or when you explicitly command it to do so, the printer will "suck" on the bottom of the print head while firing the nozzles. This ink has to go somewhere and the place it goes is a bunch of absorbent pads that line the bottom of the printer. You can't see them unless you take the printer apart which I did on a couple Canon MP760/780's and posted pictures here.

    There are other ways the printer can waste ink, such as whenever you do borderless printing on photographs. The printer actually prints a larger area than the size of the paper so this "overspray" goes onto the foam material you see along the width of the printer when you open the cover. This eventually seeps down to the absorbent pads below. Another source of waste ink is a little funnel shaped gadget off to the left (on my Canon printers) where the printer can squirt some ink for who knows what reason.

    The printer keeps track of how much ink it thinks it is wasting in a counter and when it thinks its pads are near full it will warn you that you need to take your printer into a service center to have the pads replaced and the counter reset. I posted a thread on how to do this yourself with the Canon MP760/780 here.

    So to minimize the hassle of taking your printer apart to replace the pads, some people have come up with means to divert the waste ink from the purge/prime/cleaning process to an external tank which can be periodically emptied. This is feasible because the purge pump that sucks on the bottom of the print head ejects the waste ink from a couple of tubes. You can read about my own efforts to accomplish this here. I finally gave up on this. Keep in mind that these only work on the waste ink from the purge pump. You still have to worry about the waste ink from the other two sources but unless you are doing an incredible amount of borderless printing it will probably take a very long time to saturate the waste pads from these other sources.

    The general consensus is that CISS and external waste ink tanks are not feasible on most Canon printers. They seem to be most feasible on older Epson printers. Unfortunately, the manufacturers are thwarting every effort by users like us to circumvent their expensive money channels. I'm still recommending buying the older Canon printers that do not have chips in the cartridges so that refilling is easy. There are a lot of people selling their MP780's right now because they want to upgrade to wireless or some other lame excuse.
     
  3. Apr 10, 2010
    __-_-_-__

    __-_-_-__ Getting Fingers Dirty

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    thanks you so much for the information. Now I known what is it for :p

    I've read a lot about CISS and I don't have any problems with installing one.
    I just want to known the printer which spend less ink to make it even more economical. I known that low end printers inkjet printers tend to spend loads of ink.
    Colour laser, at least low end ones. also don't compensate. For example the Samsung CP315 toners last 1500pages, 4 toners refills still cost a lot. The HP 8000/8500 can take 4 XL HP cartridges (16ml each) which last for 1400pages. way cheaper then laser, specially using a CISS, even with the added cost of some printer heads.

    But I don't known much about other printers. and I don't known which CISS to buy (I just known to avoid sponges system), because there are loads of kits out there and I also don't known nothing about ink quality. A good quality ink sounds a good idea since printer heads still cost a lot and that would make them last longer.
     
  4. Apr 10, 2010
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    There are pros and cons to which brand of printer to buy, I use Canon (my choice) but Epson do precisely the same job. If you decide to use an inkjet printer with a CISS unit youll never have to worry about the price of ink as its about 80% cheaper than OEM cartridges. You can buy good quality ink in a number of places and poor quality ink everywhere else. Theres a few contributors on here that do their own ink that I would recommend like Mikling and Websnail. The CISS unit will also depend on which printer you go for. If your choice is Epson then try Leonardjohn.
     
  5. Apr 10, 2010
    __-_-_-__

    __-_-_-__ Getting Fingers Dirty

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    thanks for the help. this is really great.

    I really don't care about brands. I just want to find the printer that spends less ink regardless of the brand.
     
  6. Apr 11, 2010
    mikling

    mikling Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    At the volumes you are doing, I would think durability/reliability is the issue you should be looking at. Ink cost is secondary if you've already decided bulk inks is the way. No matter how cheap the ink is, a printer that jams, skips, misfeeds etc. is a lot more frustrating.
     
  7. Apr 11, 2010
    websnail

    websnail Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    What he said...

    The saying goes... Buy cheap, pay twice...

    Cheapest ink usually equals clogs, hair pulling, screaming into the night and a nice padded room at the end of it all... Same with CIS systems..

    But by all means, reinvent the wheel that has been going around a few million times now... :/ Good luck..:)
     
  8. Apr 15, 2010
    __-_-_-__

    __-_-_-__ Getting Fingers Dirty

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    ok, after some research I can't find anything cheaper then the HP 8000/8500, it's the best bang for the buck.
    Now I just need to find the best CISS for the printer and where to find good 500ml ink bottles.
    any suggestions?
     
  9. Apr 16, 2010
    Leonardjohn

    Leonardjohn Printer Guru

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    Sometimes the search has two be in multiple directions, CISS, ink and printer to meet your needs.

    Sounds backwards.

    Not all printers work well with continuous ink supply systems.

    The 8000 and AIO 8500 both use the 940 cartridge. I have not found a chip manufacture that came produce a stable ARC chip for those printers.

    The 8600dn has a dual tray for volume printing and uses the #88 cartridge. Now CISS manufactures have a stable ARC chip for that printer.

    According to a Staples rep, the HP 8600dn was just closed out at stores for only for $79.00.

    I have not been able to find one anywhere but maybe you could in your location. What is your location? __-_-_-__

    Good luck
    LJH
     
  10. Apr 16, 2010
    __-_-_-__

    __-_-_-__ Getting Fingers Dirty

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    I'm in Portugal.
    the HP 8600 sounds interesting indeed. the #88 cartridges last for 1650 pages and have 17.1ml of ink vs 16ml and 1400 of the other one. so that 8600dn is even better.
    But the #88 have built in printheads and therefore are more expensive, and with a CISS I would have to replace the CISS cartridges to replace the printheads. Anyway that detail wouldn't make it more expensive.

    For $79 I would buy it now. but where I am the 8600dn is more expensive then the 8500.
    But I don't need an A3+ class printer. I just want the cheapest colour price per page.

    About ARC chips for 8000/8500 it seams there's already something
    "Remanufactured HP OEM cartridges with Auto-reset Chips have patented priming system that the imported models DO NOT HAVE"
    http://cgi.ebay.ph/NEW-CISS-HP-8000-8500-Series-Printers-940-w-Pigment-Ink-/220561536067
     

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