Well here is what I've been working on!

[jtoolman]

A couple of you members already know what I've doing in my printer dungeon but here it goes!

After MANY months of frustration and failures I have done what might be considered impossible.

I finally modified OEM T-58 PRO 3800 carts to become fully refillable and resettable with the resetter I found on Alibaba.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/713956255/Ink_cartridge_chip_resetter_for_Epson.html

This will also reset 3880 carts and both maintenance carts

It's a very long story and so the only way to convey this whole tale was to put it on to various videos.

5 parts well over one hour combined. So if you don't have the time, or simply do not care about operating your PRO 3800 or 3880 with TOTAL OEM cart reliability, and not more hassles about controller chips that fail, don't watch this. But if you want total OEM performance and the return of full accurate ink monitoring, then you might be interested on what I have to show you.

Here are my links to the complete video set. Please watch in 1-5 order, to maintain continuity of the process.

This is a lot to take in so please, only watch when you have the time.

Video #1 Intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gccxLvfknuE&feature=youtu.be
Video #2 Discussion and Mod-1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJepnArTdo&feature=youtu.be
Video #3 Modification-2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeDpEIUkkQ&feature=youtu.be
Video #4 Refilling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRr-rUu9hkU&feature=youtu.be
Video #5 Printing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQju7xOKy4&feature=youtu.be

Let me add that for the last couple of weeks, upon completion of this project, I've been running the holy HELL out of this printer using these modified OEM carts, probably putting it through more abuse that it's ever seen since I brought it home, just to see is I could detect or cause something bad to occur.

The results and general performance has not only been exemplary but better than that, it's been 100% consistant!!!

To test any possible "Ink Back Flow" problems, I've left the printer ON for days, OFF for days with absolutely no problem upon powering up and repressurazing the system, and of course, always a perfect nozzle check. There might be a anti back flow system built in beyond the point where the carts join the ink lines.

I am using OEM inks harvested from 7800 7880 Ultrachrome K3 inks purchased from EBAY at very low cost per ml.

I know some of you may be raising your eyebrow right about now BUT I assure you that even though I too had my doubts I am now a believer of my own craziness.

Maybe being a tiny bit naive about some things allowed me to not become "Paralized" and assume defeat before actually just trying! Above all, maintain an OPEN MIND!!!!
Having too much knowledge about a subject will often keep you from trying something simply because you or someone else is SO SURE it will not work!

So at this point I am one very happy and very exited camper!

Now on to another project that actually turned to be a total success as well.

Video is being posted soon! : )

Joe

 

[mikling]

Wow, that was a lot of work and ideas.

Now I have not sat through the whole video as yet but I will comment on some questions and statements raised in the video for the parts I have seen.

First thing I heard was the frequent harvesting of ink from the cartridges you purchased. These might have worked well for you however, the following issue comes to mind. For pigment ink, there will always be settlement as some particles for whatever reason, lose their ability to remain suspended within the liquid. i.e ink. So that means the harvested ink will have very high levels of pigment that has the propensity to settle. I think most people know this but don't come to appreciate what the implications are. If you take apart like the R1900 ones, you'll see steel balls on the bottom that stir up the ink and try to redisperse the sediment. This is for real EPSON ink. Canon as you know has the internal paddles to do the same again for real CANON ink. The 3880/3800 and wide format cartridges do not have these. The result is that the ink left inside the printer cartridges that are purchased will have a higher concentration of settled particles/color than normal ink. The shades will be darker. Now you can profile this out and all will be fine. But I am left to wonder about the other aspect. The very fact that the particles had settled means that they are likely to do so again. No? The result can be inconsistent color and worse high settlement inside the ink lines and unusually higher rates of settlement inside the dampers in the printhead. I am just thinking this through and don't know if it is a real issue. Only time will tell.

 

[mikling]

Rear cap puzzling?
Look for small lateral passage/s. Think outside of one direction.

 

[jtoolman]

Wow, that was a lot of work and ideas.

Now I have not sat through the whole video as yet but I will comment on some questions and statements raised in the video for the parts I have seen.

First thing I heard was the frequent harvesting of ink from the cartridges you purchased. These might have worked well for you however, the following issue comes to mind. For pigment ink, there will always be settlement as some particles for whatever reason, lose their ability to remain suspended within the liquid. i.e ink. So that means the harvested ink will have very high levels of pigment that has the propensity to settle. I think most people know this but don't come to appreciate what the implications are. If you take apart like the R1900 ones, you'll see steel balls on the bottom that stir up the ink and try to redisperse the sediment. This is for real EPSON ink. Canon as you know has the internal paddles to do the same again for real CANON ink. The 3880/3800 and wide format cartridges do not have these. The result is that the ink left inside the printer cartridges that are purchased will have a higher concentration of settled particles/color than normal ink. The shades will be darker. Now you can profile this out and all will be fine. But I am left to wonder about the other aspect. The very fact that the particles had settled means that they are likely to do so again. No? The result can be inconsistent color and worse high settlement inside the ink lines and unusually higher rates of settlement inside the dampers in the printhead. I am just thinking this through and don't know if it is a real issue. Only time will tell.

The carts that I buy are non expired or close to. Then I shake the large cart very well a day of two before using. I then I completely aspirate the inks fro, those carts and store the inks in regular 4-8 ounce bottles Nalgene bottles. Believe me, the pigment is very well dispersed by the time I use the ink to refill either R2400 or R2880 carts and definitely for the PRO 3800. Then every month they are removed from the PRO 3800 and agitated. On the other printers the inks are used up in less than a couple of week.

Think about regular OEM store bought OEM carts, They would be subject to the same problems you are describing. Unless you mean that the Large Format tanks I buy have pigment settling that is beyond help? I don't think so, as these same carts would have been installed on their prospective printers and used as normally intended without a bit of problem. In fact the process of aspiration would have mixes the particles quite well and I aspirate till there is nothing practically left.

So I am not worried at all.

Joe

 

[jtoolman]

Rear cap puzzling?
Look for small lateral passage/s. Think outside of one direction.

There 2 tiny lateral holes but they are part of the valve body and are completely sealed by the neck of the ink bag. Removing the rear oval cap does in no way disturb those two opening which are pretty covered with the bag neck and are "Welded" around the valve body.

SO........ Who knows what's taking place. It's really no longer my concern as they printer / carts / inks are working perfectly.

What will definitely do is to prepare another set of carts to always have a spare set at the ready. Even if I go back to IS or OCP K3 inks I will not mind, doing so. Everything was profiled and working very well. But with OEM inks I can use 3rd part ICC profiles for their papers and EPSON OEM inks.

Joe

 

[mikling]

Just use the upper portion of the stored ink in the bottle above the settled sludge.

Check for lateral passages on the rear oval cap.

 

[jtoolman]

I always do.

Sure, except the passages are completely sealed before I disturb the the cap as well as after I replace the cap. The cap simply sits over top small posts. Visualy under a jewlers magnifying visor, there really does not seem to be any connection between the cap and those two Mylar covered side holes on the valve base. I am sure they do have a purpose or they would not have been designed there but I really can not tell what that may be.
But as I said, it is now moot as the carts are working perfectly and I have been trying my best to make them fail! Believe me.

If I ever decide to prepare sets to sell to local 3800 and 3880 users I need to be 100% sure they are going to perform as expected. Today I ran 6 consecutive 13x19 almost full coverage prints except for a small border.
They were full spectrum, fairly well saturated images with plenty of demand for a full ink flow as well as a delicate black an white almost high key with a few totally black accents. All were perfect. All were printed as a single job through Qimage.

Joe

 

[martin0reg]

Thank you for this ingenious research, could I call you Prof. Dr. rer. cart. ?
If I ever will have a 3880 I would try to drill the hole before buying refillables...

 

[jtoolman]

The worst thing that could happen is that you running your empties you were going to toss out.

So far the printer is kicking BUTT!!

Joe

 

[jtoolman]

OK folks!

Mike, this is will probably be of great interest to you!

I've finally discovered the way the one way valve of the OEM T58 carts works.

I was nothing to do with the lateral holes on the neck of the inner portion of the valve body.
There actually is a very thin 3mm diameter clear plastic disk that sits directly behind the cross member that acts as a spring support for the outer valve poppet valve. The rear cover has a little round indentation for the disk to sit in.

Why did not see it? It very likely flew off when I popped off the rear cover of the valve and I totally missed it.

The way it works is ridiculously simple and brilliant. When any external inward pressure is imposed against it instantly causes the disk to press and seal itself against the rear cap ink hole, very effectively preventing any reverse ink flow.

So since there is absolutely no way to access that round clear disk to alter it in any way, the only practical way to provide two way ink flow is to breach that disk and the best way is to drill a small hole through it and in doing so you also drill through the rear cover anyway.
A hot needle would probably produce a cleaner hole but there is no good way to control the process of melting a hole through the plastic disk without likely damaging adjacent components while doing it.

Attempting to just push a pin though it would result in popping off the rear cover and it would then float around inside the bag. Possibly not a good thing. That's has already been proven to occur.

So it looks like at this point the best way to modify the carts is to drill the hole by aiming the small drill through one the four spaces created by the spring support CROSS member. You then breach the disk and rear cover.

Now the question always was, whether the PRO 3800 / 3880 would not operate correctly if all of a sudden the carts can allow ink to flow back!
Imagine if the printer is turned off and the carts then depressurize. Would the ink bag, now in a relaxed state "SUCK" ink back into itself, while at the same time sucking air into the head.

But does ink actually flow back?
A member from another forum told me that he though that the PRO 3800 / 3880 had an ink anti back flow system built into the ink lines just beyond where the carts join the ink compartment ports. I asked you guys for the service manual for the 3800 but I could not fins anything leading to an anti backflow system in the ink lines. Maybe in the damper / head area? I got tired of scanning all the pages and gave up.

To try to prove if there is back flow, I have turned off the printer for several days straight and then running a nozzle check immediately upon powering it on.

There was no difference in the length of time that the printer pressurized the carts. Plus the nozzle checks were perfect.

So that's probably about all I can do with this project. Unless anyone can come up with some other suggestions I have not addressed.

Thanks

Joe