Test results for FORMULABS INK
- Thread starter RC
- Start date
Re-reading this thread.... some observations:
RC said he didn't like the BCI-6 ink in his 4 color printers, but htey are good for his 6+ color.
Grandad is also usign a 6+ color.
Bananna said his 4 color tests were "way too pink" and garbage, which is pretty close to my feeling.
So, I'm starting to see a pattern here..
Maybe the Arrow Formulabs carts just suck for 4 color!
RC said he didn't like the BCI-6 ink in his 4 color printers, but htey are good for his 6+ color.
Grandad is also usign a 6+ color.
Bananna said his 4 color tests were "way too pink" and garbage, which is pretty close to my feeling.
So, I'm starting to see a pattern here..
Maybe the Arrow Formulabs carts just suck for 4 color!
- Thread starter
- #23
Inky:
I think I understand your dilemma.
No ink is good enough for any job, not Canon not any.
For example, I print photos of coins with a slight tarnishing, and most inks dont recreate a realist color. On prints of gold and silver coins the slightest shift in color is magnified many times, so I must use a different ink if I want realistic colors when printing coins.
However, if I use the same ink that I use for coins, when printing portraits, the portraits are not rich enough and the faces look pail.
In some other case I need to use another ink.
For printing coins on the ip5000, I find that the Costco IMS ink, gives me the best results, and I think that is what you are looking for. Costco ink is also a little darker than others, giving better details.
Most people do not like ink that produces exact colors, for the pictures do not come out vivid enough. Even when you bring regular film to develop, the colors are not exact, they use richer colors so that the picture looks more alive.
Also try using all different settings from the printer driver, they give all kinds of results. Try darker, lighter, auto, none, vivid, optimized, Photo Paper Pro, Photo Paper Plus Glossy, etch.
The truth is that inkjet printers are not yet capable of reproducing screen colors exactly.
I also experiment in mixing different inks, and sometimes I get very good results. But beware when changing inks in your printer flush it first with cartridges filled with Windex and Alcohol, or you may get a bad clog.
Also the slightest clog in your printhead will give you a color shift.
I wish I could see one of the photos you have the most problems with.
Robert
I think I understand your dilemma.
No ink is good enough for any job, not Canon not any.
For example, I print photos of coins with a slight tarnishing, and most inks dont recreate a realist color. On prints of gold and silver coins the slightest shift in color is magnified many times, so I must use a different ink if I want realistic colors when printing coins.
However, if I use the same ink that I use for coins, when printing portraits, the portraits are not rich enough and the faces look pail.
In some other case I need to use another ink.
For printing coins on the ip5000, I find that the Costco IMS ink, gives me the best results, and I think that is what you are looking for. Costco ink is also a little darker than others, giving better details.
Most people do not like ink that produces exact colors, for the pictures do not come out vivid enough. Even when you bring regular film to develop, the colors are not exact, they use richer colors so that the picture looks more alive.
Also try using all different settings from the printer driver, they give all kinds of results. Try darker, lighter, auto, none, vivid, optimized, Photo Paper Pro, Photo Paper Plus Glossy, etch.
The truth is that inkjet printers are not yet capable of reproducing screen colors exactly.
I also experiment in mixing different inks, and sometimes I get very good results. But beware when changing inks in your printer flush it first with cartridges filled with Windex and Alcohol, or you may get a bad clog.
Also the slightest clog in your printhead will give you a color shift.
I wish I could see one of the photos you have the most problems with.
Robert
Thanks for the interest. Yea, no ink is perfect, including Canon OEM.
However, the problem with purple shadows is absolutly more of an issue with the Formulabs inks.
I have a reference photo I use for color tests. It has multiple portraits, a red motorcycle, a black one, some flowers, a fruit stilll life, skies, etc. The whole gamut. That prints great with OEM inks.
I've tested and cross checked everything, for clogs, switched in the OEMs, etc. everything. OEM is fine, Arrow carts are not.
Like Bananna said, prints with the Arrow Formulabs carts are magenta cast, esp in the shadows. It's just not balanced to the OEM.
One print of a brunet has her hair going from reddish brown on the top where it's lit, to purple where it's in shadow. It's not the source image, and the OEM inks print it just fine. The tinting is so bad that to correct it I have to really weaken magenta and get very poor desaturated yellowish reds, or crank up yellow until skin is jaundiced.
I'll post it soon, so you can see what I mean.
However, the problem with purple shadows is absolutly more of an issue with the Formulabs inks.
I have a reference photo I use for color tests. It has multiple portraits, a red motorcycle, a black one, some flowers, a fruit stilll life, skies, etc. The whole gamut. That prints great with OEM inks.
I've tested and cross checked everything, for clogs, switched in the OEMs, etc. everything. OEM is fine, Arrow carts are not.
Like Bananna said, prints with the Arrow Formulabs carts are magenta cast, esp in the shadows. It's just not balanced to the OEM.
One print of a brunet has her hair going from reddish brown on the top where it's lit, to purple where it's in shadow. It's not the source image, and the OEM inks print it just fine. The tinting is so bad that to correct it I have to really weaken magenta and get very poor desaturated yellowish reds, or crank up yellow until skin is jaundiced.
I'll post it soon, so you can see what I mean.
- Thread starter
- #25
Inky:
Let me know what settings you are using when you are printing with Canon ink and getting good results.
From the printer properties COLOR MANAGEMENT (Automatic) or (Manual) and which profile.
From the printer driver:
MEDIA TYPE
COLOR ADJUSTMENT
EFFECTS
What kind of paper are you using?
If I get all this information, I will try and get you a solution or profile.
Do not despair, luckily the 4 color printers are the easier ones to profile.
Also, Canon color correction in the driver stinks. I suspect that they do not want you to correct the colors, for they want you to buy OEM ink.
In the COLOR MANAGEMENT area it gives you the option to add other profiles, what Canon does not tell you is that the driver will not recognize that profile. The only way you can use a profile is from PhotoShop. And even then you will find that if you use the default profile (CNBJPRN2) from PhotoShops PRINT WITH PREVIEW, you will get different results.
I think it would be a good idea, if everyone would start calling Canon and ask why one cannot use a custom profile in the COLOR MANAGEMENT. They will tell you that one can, but that is bull. If you add your own profile, it will be ignored.
You cannot use a profile printing from MS Word. That stinks if you want to create a color catalogue. That is Canons fault.
Let me know and I will see if I can help you.
Robert
Let me know what settings you are using when you are printing with Canon ink and getting good results.
From the printer properties COLOR MANAGEMENT (Automatic) or (Manual) and which profile.
From the printer driver:
MEDIA TYPE
COLOR ADJUSTMENT
EFFECTS
What kind of paper are you using?
If I get all this information, I will try and get you a solution or profile.
Do not despair, luckily the 4 color printers are the easier ones to profile.
Also, Canon color correction in the driver stinks. I suspect that they do not want you to correct the colors, for they want you to buy OEM ink.
In the COLOR MANAGEMENT area it gives you the option to add other profiles, what Canon does not tell you is that the driver will not recognize that profile. The only way you can use a profile is from PhotoShop. And even then you will find that if you use the default profile (CNBJPRN2) from PhotoShops PRINT WITH PREVIEW, you will get different results.
I think it would be a good idea, if everyone would start calling Canon and ask why one cannot use a custom profile in the COLOR MANAGEMENT. They will tell you that one can, but that is bull. If you add your own profile, it will be ignored.
You cannot use a profile printing from MS Word. That stinks if you want to create a color catalogue. That is Canons fault.
Let me know and I will see if I can help you.
Robert
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Robert,
I have (or at least I think that I have) been able to add a profile in the driver that is used with the MS Photo Printing Wizard. Canon's Easy Photo Print ignores everything, even the settings in Canon's printer driver. See post # 2 in (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=118) for the settings. Clicking the "Set ICM" button is the non-obvious key to activating the profile selected in "Color management" - if it is not secected, the new profile will be ignored.
I have been told by others who used these instructions that the new profile also works in MS Word, as long as the changes to the "Printing Preferences" are the default settings for the driver (Start/Control Panel/Printers&Faxes, right click on the printer name, click on "Printing Preferences", set the preferences).
Let me know if you have any questions.
I have (or at least I think that I have) been able to add a profile in the driver that is used with the MS Photo Printing Wizard. Canon's Easy Photo Print ignores everything, even the settings in Canon's printer driver. See post # 2 in (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=118) for the settings. Clicking the "Set ICM" button is the non-obvious key to activating the profile selected in "Color management" - if it is not secected, the new profile will be ignored.
I have been told by others who used these instructions that the new profile also works in MS Word, as long as the changes to the "Printing Preferences" are the default settings for the driver (Start/Control Panel/Printers&Faxes, right click on the printer name, click on "Printing Preferences", set the preferences).
Let me know if you have any questions.
- Thread starter
- #27
- Thread starter
- #28
- Thread starter
- #29
Inky:
I Emailed you a profile for the Formulabs BCI-6, for the IP5000. This profile may not work with the I960 or any other 6-color printer, I did not tested on any of them.
I also have something else for you to try. This method will give you personal control over what color shift you prefer.
Whatever file you are working on, do the following.
Create a new adjustment SELECTIVE COLOR layer, make sure this layer sits above all other layers.
Set all the colors to:
+15 Cyan
-15 Magenta
+15 Yellow
Set the neutrals to:
+5 Cyan
-5 Magenta
+5 Yellow
Do not make any adjustments to the White and Black colors, leave everything at zero.
Then print the photo and see if you like it. If you thing it needs more yellow or whatever, go back in the selective color layer and adjust until you get the results you want.
I hope this will help.
I find that the selective color adjustment gives more realistic colors then Canon ink.
Robert
I Emailed you a profile for the Formulabs BCI-6, for the IP5000. This profile may not work with the I960 or any other 6-color printer, I did not tested on any of them.
I also have something else for you to try. This method will give you personal control over what color shift you prefer.
Whatever file you are working on, do the following.
Create a new adjustment SELECTIVE COLOR layer, make sure this layer sits above all other layers.
Set all the colors to:
+15 Cyan
-15 Magenta
+15 Yellow
Set the neutrals to:
+5 Cyan
-5 Magenta
+5 Yellow
Do not make any adjustments to the White and Black colors, leave everything at zero.
Then print the photo and see if you like it. If you thing it needs more yellow or whatever, go back in the selective color layer and adjust until you get the results you want.
I hope this will help.
I find that the selective color adjustment gives more realistic colors then Canon ink.
Robert
Robert,
Thanks for the effort! You had my hopes up for a second there. It looks like you hand edited a color print profile with some rough color tweaks.
Unfortunatly, the profile you sent produces incredibly yellow prints. So yellow that people are the color of bananas.
Thanks for the Photoshop advice. Did I mention I've been doing CG professionally for about 12 years and using Photoshop since it's first version?
I mentioned a couple times that I've used color balance for color correcting with Photoshop, and a few other types of adjustment layers and methods.
Unfortunatly this will never work to correct the Arrow ink on the ip5000, because the color shift is not linear enough or close enough to Canon OEM to be fixed by anything but a custom profile generated by a color calibrator, if then. A custom calibrated profile still might not pick it up unless it was done with a good spectrometer because the shift is predominantly in dark regions printed quite visable to the eye, but where RGB loses chroma precision due to small values.
If you have such a profile for the Formulabs and ip5000, that would be welcome!
Thanks anyways.
btw, I don't understand what you mean by "more realistic colors than Canon ink" ... Printed color should be accurate to the image on a calibrated monitor, whether the source color is realistic or not. "Realistic" is subjective, accurate to a color calibrated monitor is objective.
Also, didn't you mention that you had found the "perfect" ink for the ip5000 which you were testing? Any news there?
Thanks for the effort! You had my hopes up for a second there. It looks like you hand edited a color print profile with some rough color tweaks.
Unfortunatly, the profile you sent produces incredibly yellow prints. So yellow that people are the color of bananas.
Thanks for the Photoshop advice. Did I mention I've been doing CG professionally for about 12 years and using Photoshop since it's first version?
I mentioned a couple times that I've used color balance for color correcting with Photoshop, and a few other types of adjustment layers and methods.
Unfortunatly this will never work to correct the Arrow ink on the ip5000, because the color shift is not linear enough or close enough to Canon OEM to be fixed by anything but a custom profile generated by a color calibrator, if then. A custom calibrated profile still might not pick it up unless it was done with a good spectrometer because the shift is predominantly in dark regions printed quite visable to the eye, but where RGB loses chroma precision due to small values.
If you have such a profile for the Formulabs and ip5000, that would be welcome!
Thanks anyways.
btw, I don't understand what you mean by "more realistic colors than Canon ink" ... Printed color should be accurate to the image on a calibrated monitor, whether the source color is realistic or not. "Realistic" is subjective, accurate to a color calibrated monitor is objective.
Also, didn't you mention that you had found the "perfect" ink for the ip5000 which you were testing? Any news there?
