Soon: big test of refillable Epson Pro 3800 cartridges + resetters

[pharmacist]

Hi fortis,

Please specify what the error is, what is the maintenance cartridge error, which cartridges are faulty and what is the error message. Maybe You should take a picture of the error and post it. It could be one of the tuning chip is faulty. Did you see my first posts at the beginning of this topic, when I had a faulty tuning chip, causing the whole system being non-functional. Maybe the error message is exactly what I had posted on the very first posts of this topic. Please have a look there.

Please make sure the first pin of the chip has been properly taped off, without taping off any of the second contact.

 

[fortisi876]

Hello Pharm,

I did see your posting about the faulty tuning chip and believe that may be what the problem is with mine. Regarding the error message, it says either no or replace maintenance cartridge. The ink cart related error doesn't state a problem, they just blink so I think they may not be getting recognized???

Could the problem be that some of the chips were very low, like below 5%?


I tried their steps #3 & 5, here> http://www.inkrepublic.com/knowledgebase/3800-iRefill-faq.asp

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Fortis,

If one of the tuning chips is faulty, the maintenance cartridge chip will give a constant error.....and the effected colours (controlled by the tuning chip, as those two tuning chips will both control 2 sets of of cartridges/maintenance chip) will blink.

Note: the Inkrepublic system, if the system is OK, can drive chips even if they have dropped below 5 % (see my test with the chip resetter, which can only reset chips above 5 %, but the same chip can be controlled succesfully using the Inkrepublic system). I had exactly the same problem that there was not maintenance tank installed the first time and it was a faulty tuning chip.

So my advise: tell Inkrepublic.com one or both of the tuning chips are faulty and have them replaced.

 

[fortisi876]

Thanks!

 

[jtoolman]

My PRO3800 carts from Inkejetcarts and from someone else do not use the tuning chick with the OEM - tape over a terminal system. You get a full set of chips on a special clip that "Piggyback over the original OEM chips. No problems or hassles at all. In fact the Inkjetcarts kit controller chips feature "Always Full" ink levels and Maintenace "Aways Full" chip. You "DO" need to visually monitor your Ink and Inkwaste levels carefully.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Jtoolman,

Nice to hear you are promoting inkjetcarts so well.....but have a look here:

http://store.inkjetcarts.us/epson-pro-3800-refillable-cart-systems-p4599.aspx

These are the same carts as the Inkrepublic.com I-refill system. And sofar I cannot imagine that these carts uses piggyback over the original OEM chips. Actually the more piggyback chips the higher the chances of faulty chips blocking the system......
These inkjetcarts cartridges use the same 2 tuning chips and require the same taping off pin number 1 of all the OEM chips.....as shown on the instruction video of inkjetcarts.

Maybe there is some hidden link to this always full system ?

 

[irvweiner]

Pharmcist: there is no hidden system at IJC, just a lot of 'stuff' needing reorganizing. the links below will take you to the core.

http://www.inkjetcarts.us/support/a...ble-cartridge-installation-tutorial-file.html

This is the actual instruction set for our 38xx printers.
http://www.inkjetcarts.us/support/assets/refillable-3800-carts_instructions1_copy1.pdf

Do visit his earlier 3 videos showing 'how--to'
http://www.inkjetcarts.us/support_original/

His cart set is identical to that of Inkrepublic, Jon Cone and is the one I have using for the past year. Just as you suffered from a lack of proper priming info, I had some from his. But, at least he brought out the importance of doing so. I advised him of the more aggressive technique I used when priming thru the pressure inlet valve and THEN pressing on the spring loaded outlet valve. I posted my suggestion here and in dpreview.

Unlike the test carts IJF sent me, no piggybacking of chips takes place in the above systems. And yes, the potential opportunities for failure takes place well before the piggy backing on the IJF carts--you may recall my comments concerning the labels that fell of several carts I received.

I am quite pleased that we now have at least 3 reliable vendors for our 38xx's and for our inks.
I would like see a new generation of 80ml carts, I'm concerned with the additional workload the pressure pump has to undertake in order to maintain the proper pressure on a larger chamber volume. Secondly, I would love see a new chipset that can be 'reset' without the need to execute the 'cartridge dance'. Jon Cone has returned recently from China investigating/researching new refill systems and inks, it would be worthwhile for you to get an update.

I hope this info has opened some new doors for you and exposed the 'unhidden' links.

irv weiner

 

[pharmacist]

Hi irvweiner,

the problem is that jtoolman mentioned a piggback system for these IRK/IJC/Cone carts. Where is it ??? There is NO always full maintenance chip, no full set of chips (you still need 7 of your original chips to be transferred on these carts).....So tell me where this system is ? I know these links you mentioned (searched on the website).

The only system using a piggyback chip system are the ones from Inkjetfly (Small foot and Big Foot system) with the always full maintenance chip included.

Maybe I make some mistake, but maybe jtoolman can clears things up ?

 

[jtoolman]

Hi Jtoolman,

Nice to hear you are promoting inkjetcarts so well.....but have a look here:

http://store.inkjetcarts.us/epson-pro-3800-refillable-cart-systems-p4599.aspx

These are the same carts as the Inkrepublic.com I-refill system. And sofar I cannot imagine that these carts uses piggyback over the original OEM chips. Actually the more piggyback chips the higher the chances of faulty chips blocking the system......
These inkjetcarts cartridges use the same 2 tuning chips and require the same taping off pin number 1 of all the OEM chips.....as shown on the instruction video of inkjetcarts.

Maybe there is some hidden link to this always full system ?

Actually I screwed up and meant Inkjetfly.com
I am using their 80ml refillables which do use the controller chip directly over the OEM. Perfect alignment, no problems with chip recognition and it was those I was refering to, not the large ones from Inkjetcarts or Inkrepublic which require a manual resetting procedure right?

These aparently do not as I have printing for months and I have not seen a drop on the ink monitors. You have to be vigilant and make sure they are topped off evey once in a while.

http://www.inkjetfly.com/product_info.php?cPath=191&products_id=299
At the tine I got mine, he was selling the empty carts and chips plus the forever full maintenace tank replacement chip for $99



"Year 2011 version of Refillable cartridge for Epson Stylus Pro 3800 with latest IMA 24/36 V3 ink 100ml x 9

Feature:

80ml OEM size cartridges. Printer cover remain closed.
No chip resetter needed. Ink level stay full all the time.
No modification of printer is needed. This item come with a plastic key to lock the printer while printer lid is opened.
Superior stable ink flow.
Come with 9 refillable cartridges (80ml in size) and refill kit.

** This item needs 3800 OEM chips"

 

[pharmacist]

I finally sold my 4 years old Epson Pro 3800 and bought a new Epson Pro 3880 printer. To lower the purchase price I have sold the original cartridges and I was searching for a good alternative refill system.

Until now I have used the very good Inkrepublic I-refill system with large but very well-built cartridges, which were very easy to refill and to maintain and are very reliable. Despite this, not everybody wish to use these large cartridges due to the size/accommodation problems this. However: these cartridges are the number one for heavy duty printing, because of the ease of refilling and resetting and the fact the maintenance cartridge is reset too by the advanced two master chips.

For those with a more moderate printing need, the smaller refillables might be good alternative. As a pioneer of the very first (prototype) refillable cartridge systems for the Epson Pro 3800 I have encountered not so good experiences with the first models: unstable ink flow and rupture of the cartridge ink outlet valve, causing leaking and other problems. The Inkrepublic.coms I-refill system was the first system that worked reliable. This is system is one the best of the market for heavy duty printing, but the large size might be problem for those who do not wish to remove/modify the ink cover and do not have much space to accommodate these cartridges.

I have purchased a set of these smaller size refillable Epson Pro 3880 cartridges from a Chinese manufacturer (www.winnerjet.com) and also the Inkrepublic.coms Pro 3880 I-refill system, which I will review in my next topic.
I had some problem at first, because the normally only sell to refill companies.but I could convince them to sell me just one set for testing. These cartridges are similar to the ones sold by Inkjetmall.com, Inkjetfly.com (small foot) and many other refill companies:

These cartridges are the same size as the original ones and works with a master/tuning chip combined with the original OEM chip, which must be seated into a cradle underneath the tuning chip. Together the cartridge will become auto-reset. Just removing the cartridge and reinstalling, will reset the ink level back to 100 % full.

Now because I have sold my original Epson Pro 3880 cartridges, I did not have the necessary Vivid Magenta and Vivid Light Magenta chips to fire up my printer. I still do have a set of original Epson Pro 3800 chips, but with the normal magenta and light magenta chips included.
What should I do: try these old chips for the Epson Pro 3800 chips into my new Epson Pro 3880 printer and pray it will work ?

First time refilling the cartridges:

-Remove the colored rubber plug with the flap on the back of the cartridge and inject the ink into the cartridge. It can accommodate about 60-70 mls of ink only, despite the claim it can hold 80-90 ml. But I discovered the reason for this. Have a look at the picture of the yellow cartridge I have filled the very first time with ink. Notice the 2 empty ink buffer compartments:

-After the first refill, you will need to prime the cartridges with a syringe without needle to remove the air from the cartridge:

-The priming procedure will fill the 2 ink buffer compartments and this is how the cartridge should look like after priming. Most refill companies do forget to mention this necessary step, because otherwise you will pump up a lot of air into the internal tubing system and your print head, causing massive banding and clogs, caused by printing air bubbles onto your paper surface:

-Installing the refillable cartridges into your printer:

Now the big test into my printer.Because I do not have the original Epson Pro 3880 Vivid Magenta and Vivid Light Magenta OEM chips to drive these refillable cartridges, I substituted these with normal magenta and normal light magenta.

After several minutes of pumping to prime the internal tubing system and print head, I have a look at the printer LED display panel, this is what my printer says:

A dramatic drop in the maintenance cartridge level to 55% and most importantly.The printer is accepting the normal magenta and light magenta chips. This is rather a surprise to me, but I suspect the reason is that for Epson it was cheaper to alter the physical indentation of the cartridge for the M/VM and LM/VLM position than redesign a new chip and thus alter the whole logic board of the Epson Pro 3800, which is actually the same printer as the Epson Pro 3880 with some modification in the print head (Teflon coating to repel ink better) and the way how the ink droplets are placed (more accurate droplet placement and internal RIP).

-Printing properties of the refillable cartridges:

After this ink gushing initial charging/priming operation I printed a manual nozzle check and it was perfect. So I printed several printer targets to profile my refill ink. Meanwhile I also tested my resetter for the maintenance tank, which does not seems to work directly. The printer must be powered down before resetting, otherwise the ink level is not reset. This is the resetter I used for resetting the maintenance tank:

After a few days of printing, the printer suddenly executed a full print head cleaning cycle and the reset maintenance tank dropped from 100 % to 94 %....I decided to execute an automatic nozzle check and this is the result:

I also decided to test the auto-reset capability of the cartridges, but somehow it was difficult to remove some cartridges from the printer. It seems the tuning chip cradle somehow stuck, when you want to remove the cartridges. The problem seems to be caused by the cradle not sitting firmly/deep enough on the cartridge and hooks against the inner parts of the cartridge slot. Watch out NOT the pull out the cartridge when it seemingly get stuck in the cartridge slot, as this can damage the chip contacts.

Conclusion:

Despite the flimsy looking cartridges, they actually performed much better than I have expected. Ink flow has been excellent during the testing period of over a week now. I also have discovered that these particular refillable cartridges accept the normal magenta and light magenta chips from the Epson Pro 3800 without any problems (same chips as the vivid magenta/vivid light magenta cartridges ?). Not sure how long these cartridges will last before you will need to replace them. The ink outlet valve is still made from rubber, a material that can degrade/starve overtime.

I am not very found off this type of material for the ink outlet valve for these types of pressurized cartridges. Any leakage (rubber starvation, cracks) can result into a disastrous ink spill. Inkrepublic.com I-refill system shows how it can be dealt with by using a material similar to the ink outlet valve as the original Epson cartridges. For the Epson R3000 this is less critical, despite the same construction of print head fed by a tubing system from stationary cartridges. The reason is that the ink is not pushed into the tubing system as in the Epson Pro 3800/3880 by pressurizing the cartridges, but actually sucked into the print head (print head contains a mechanical pump, that sucks the ink into buffer dampers, which hold a certain amount of ink and get replenished on regular intervals). The other concern is the position of the refill hole/plug. If there is a leak and the cartridge is under pressure, the ink will spill out from this holeuntil the ink level falls down beneath the level of this refill hole, before it the air can escape through this very refill hole. Why not put the refill hole on top of the cartridge ? This way it is safer in case the refill hole is not properly sealed and it is less likely the ink will escape from the top, as the air can escape directly on top of the cartridge above the surface of the ink. If they managed to get these two improvements in the next designs, it would be a great step forward.

Do not forget to prime the cartridges properly the very first time when you inject the ink into the empty cartridges: an essential step to get properly functioning cartridges. This is only necessary the first time, afterwards just inject the ink into the cartridges and the chips will reset automatically.

However: the maintenance tank chip still needs an expensive resetter to be reused. Also the chip must be registered completely empty, otherwise resetting is impossibleSometimes you will need a second maintenance tank (registered as completely saturated) to get a successful reset, adding to the cost of this already very expensive resetter (like the one from Inkjetmall.com). The one I have seems to deal with just one maintenance tank, but the chip was not below 15 %. I purchased this resetter a few years ago and I paid $99 for it. If the chip of your maintenance tank is registered empty by the printer, the is chip is shut down and any attempt to reset the chip will give this (my very old and first maintenance tank of my Epson Pro 3800):

The first picture shows the new and my old maintenance cartridge:

This is the result if I insert the reset old maintenance tank into the printer:

My next review will be about the www.inkrepublic.com Pro 3880 I-refill system, which I also have bought, because my particular (more than average usage) and the ease of refilling (no syringe/needles) and the fact this advanced system also can drive the maintenance tank chip without the need of a separate (and expensive) resetter.