Soon: big test of refillable Epson Pro 3800 cartridges + resetters

[fortisi876]

Just a quick update: Inkjetfly upgraded their refillable Epson Pro 3800/3880 cartridges and a time ago and recently Leo Chang contacted me to have this system tested for him as this system has some interesting new features and most importantly the quality of the refill ink. As soon as I have received the cartridges I will perform some tests on it and report back.

Any updates?!?!


I was looking to purchase the blue resetter myself when I just noticed they're $95 on eBay, anyone know a cheaper priced source?

If not, for the additional $75 I'll just buy the all new inkfly cart set with the maintenance tank chip, I read that they're finally auto reset now, anyone try them???

 

[pharmacist]

Inkjetfly Epson Pro 3800/3880 Big Foot refillable system
Recently Leo Chang (Inkjetfly.com) contacted me to test their latest refillable cartridge system (Big Foot) for the Epson Pro 3800/3880 printer, replacing their older bag based cartridges with resetter.

I had similar cartridges tested from efillink.com, who ask me about the test them, because they were finding out which cartridge system would be the best. Despite their similar design to the original OEM carts, the construction quality was suboptimal. The way these cartridges had to be refilled combined with the material (rubber) of the refill hole/ink outlet hole, makes me wonder how well these carts will last, since with my first carts I tested a few years ago with the same rubber ink outlet hole valve I had a disastrous leak from one of the cartridges, as the rubber material of the ink outlet valve ruptured and instead of pumping the ink into the CISS piping system of the printer, the ink flooded the inner side of the printer, making it a complete mess.
The repeated insertion and extraction to refill these bag based carts through a rubber inlet valve will put extra stress on this easily deteriorating material much heavily (rubber easily will rupture after time due to material fatigue and oxidation, similar to rubber elastics tearing apart and rupturing after a certain period).

Now back to these Big Foot Pro 3800/3880 refillable cartridges. There is also a smaller Small foot version of the cartridges, not requiring you to remove the cartridge cover and these will be reviewed by Irv Weiner (a member of the nifty-stuff.com and dpreview.com websites).

The system consists of the following items:

-9 very large cartridges (gun-shaped) with a easy to open refill hole (made of silicone presumably)
-7 dummy chips
-2 tuning chips with need the original PK and MB chips (you will need only these 2 ones)
-1 resettable maintenance chip replacement
-a plastic key to simulate closing of the ink cover
-Inkjetflys own proprietary IMA24/36 K3 pigment ink set.
-manual (rather basic though)

Above picture shows the package with the 2 tuning chips, 7 dummy chips working together with the 2 tuning chips and 1 resettable maintenance cartridge chip (waste ink tank).

The 2 tuning chips have 3 pins underneath them to make contact with the original OEM chip to be functional. This is a very good concept: maybe in the future the manufacturer could attach the OEM chips on 2 of those tuning chips, thus making it more interesting for those not having these OEM as they might have thrown away the old cartridges. The Inkrepublic Pro 3800/3880 I-refill system also has two tuning chips as well, but still needs the other 7 original OEM chips to function. The whole chipset will always stay full and it is by visual inspection you should refill the cartridges when time comes. I am not sure this is good idea for the maintenance tank. The Inkrepublic I-refill system maintenance tank chip can only reset back to empty (or 100 %) when the chips register as empty, even though you can reset cartridge chip back to full every time. I think this a safeguard forcing you to check the maintenance tank and replace the absorption material when it really gets full. Staying full all the time can be dangerous, when one do not check the maintenance tank on a regular base to prevent overflowing. Since both cartridge systems are transparent or semi-transparent you can visually check physical ink level at any time, so staying full electronically is not a big problem in this case.

Now the front side of these gun shaped cartridges: unfortunately the material is still rubber. I was hoping Inkjetfly would have the ink valve replaced with a more sturdy material, like the original OEM carts and the Inkrepublic I-refill system.

Above picture shows 4 types of refillable cartridges now available on the market for the Epson Pro 3800/3880. From left to right: Inkjetfly Big Foot, Colordroplets, Inkrepublic I-refill, Efillink.com (similar to the older bag-based Inkjetfly system).

As you can see: same flimsy rubber ink outlet valve like my older first version carts. Fortunately the system does not need removing as the chips will always show full all the time now, so it should last much longer without any ill effect., so it should last much longer without any ill effect.

The refill hole of these cartridges are very easily opened and refill is easier compared to the Inkrepublic.com I-refill system. The stopper is made of silicone rubber: a material they should have used to create the ink outlet valve.

Above: left the two PK and MB carts with tuning chip with OEM chips and right the seven other cartridges with only a dummy chip. A very clever system indeed and much easier for the end user, then having 7 or 9 original chips installed from the original carts, which might been already through away by the end user.

So all the cartridges have been filled by me and sealed.

Do not forget to remove the orange stopper covering the pressure inlet valve before installing them into your printer.

The maintenance tank with the resettable maintenance tank chip side by side. You will have to replace the original chip with this one to have the maintenance tank be become auto resettable.

I use this particular nail cutter to cut off the plastic contacts attaching the chip on the maintenance cartridge. So after tweaking the maintenance tank looks like this, with the original chip now replaced by this special chip.So after tweaking the maintenance tank looks like this, with the original chip now replaced by this special chip.

The cartridges now installed into the printer. I think the cartridges are a bit too large for me. Much bigger and larger compared to the already extra size Inkrepublic I-refill system.

The first problem with the system: It can only detect 3 of the cartridges installed and the maintenance tank. How can I solve this problem ?

I quickly installed the previous Inkrepublic I-refill system back into the printer. Note the white ink cover key on the left of the table of the Inkjetfly system, now removed from the system.

Nothing wrong with this system: system is working like it has been previously before installing the Inkjetfly Big Foot system. No problem with the OEM chip, so there is something wrong with one or more of the Big Foot tuning chips/dummy chips.

The next day I tried to figure out where the problem lays and I discovered the PK cartridge tuning chip did not make contact with the PK OEM chip. There was a manufacturer error in the cradle of the tuning chip, that seems to fit not optimally on the OEM chip. I could feel the tuning chip cradle was jumping back away from the OEM chip. I had to put tape between the cradle and the cartridge to firmly seat the cradle onto the cartridge and thus the OEM chip. Quite annoying, but fortunately I figured out the exact problem of the error message on my printer.

Now with the last technical problem solved I tried to print and first of all a nozzle check:

Well it looks good, but it is still the previous ink inside the tubing system. So performed a cleaning cycle to flush the tubing system and having it replaced with the Inkjetfly ink. The manual states one has to execute several cleaning cycles to flush the system. So I did:

Hmmm, there is a bit of air pushed inside the system as you can see.

Above picture: after a second cleaning cycle. It actually got worse. How many cleaning cycles should be performed to flush away previous ink and air from the system ??? Note: the maintenance cartridge is back to 100 %, as I removed it to replace the absorption material.

At this particular time, this topic has been posted I already run 9-10 cleaning cycles with 15-30 minutes in between to have the ink settled (so air pockets can escape from the surface), but still no 100 % clean nozzle check print. Rather dissappointing: the manual states a few cleaning cycles to remove the air from the tubing system. I will power of the printer and see if the situation will improve tomorrow. I did not need so much cleaning cycles on the Inkrepublic I-refill system the first time to remove the air trapped inside the printer (up to 3 times at most, gradually improving). Now when 1 or 2 colours seem to improve others seem to get worse after a cleaning, even with 15-30 minutes in between to rest. Hopefully this will go away tomorrow.

I have been testing the system since yesterday evening and this morning 9.00 AM till now 3.00 PM local time. So the chip problem of the PK tuning chip has been solved by using tape and now see if the trapped air will be gone tomorrow. The good thing is the chips will always stay at 100 % and the resettable maintenance chip will auto reset everytime you remove it from the system. Another positive aspect of this system you only need 2 OEM chips to have the system functioning: PK and MB.

 

[stratman]

An interesting review with great photographs.

I don't use an Epson but I do like reading these sorts of posts. Hope everything works out.

 

[mikling]

This is the way I try and avoid the trapped air issue which is a pesky problem in the lines.
Ensure that the priming is properly done. On some cartridges, you will have a hole near the outlet that is capped with a sealing plug. This allows you to prime the cartridges with a solid ink column right out to the outlet.
There is also the air inlet hole that is capped when the cartridge is out the printer but the cap is removed when in the printer.
To prime, remove the cap at the air relief or vent hole. The next step is to remove the clear plug that is next to the outlet hole. Following that, use a slip lock syringe and with the plunger fully depressed or down, you insert the syringe into the priming hole. Now just slowly pull the syringe up while the cartridge is kept UPRIGHT as in the normal postion and not lying down. ( The syringe will be horizontal ) Now when the syringe starts oulling out ink with no more air, you carefully remove it and recap the sealing plug. Either insert the cartridge into the printer now or recap the air relief hole. The previous assumes the cartridge is filled with ink.

If the cartridge does not have a priming hole, you can either carefully insert the tip of the syringe into the ink outlet or use a bottom fill adapter and perform a similar operation. The concept is the same.

The cartridges on this class of machines are very similar to the Pro Wide format series like the 9800, 10xxxx etc.
By properly priming these, you avoid the dreaded air in the line issue.

This is the same reason why I have been supplying prefilled cartridges properly primed yet still sealed so that the chances of getting the dreaded air is much less likely and users rarely need to do multiple "cleaninngs". The Artisan 700-835 series of printers has identical issues.

This issue is worse on the pigment printers mainly because if you have a nice sheet of fine art paper in there.......
You won't be happy.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Michael,

actually the manual states it can not be primed and it particularly warns NOT to pierce the ink valve as it can damage it. I am sticking to it, as I have similar carts a few years ago and it turned out disastrous, partly I think I tried to push into the valve so the ink could flow out from the cartridge, hoping the air would escape from it. There is no similar priming hole on the carts, like you show on that version stated above.

Now just wait till tomorrow and see what happens with the cartridges and if the air will have escaped from the tubing system. The Inkrepublic system is much easier to prime, even though it is not stated at the website. I discovered the priming step on one of the video's at inkjetcarts.us, selling the same cartridges. Strangely enough Inkrepublic.com did not mention this essential priming step previously. Only when I indicated them about this issue, they put this fact on their website, albeit rather cryptical.

 

[mikling]

You need to be careful when piercing the ink valve for sure! and that is the last resort. If you have a bottom fill adapter that should cause no real damage if you pierce it carefully with just a hole and not slice it with a knife. Don't forget when you install the cart it gets pierced anyways by the ink spigot inside the printer.

The plastic seal is used as a retainer and provides all the retention force against a spring loaded cap valve inside the outlet. If you remove or pierce or cut too much of the plastic sheet, the spring system can pop out. So that might be some concern for unwary users and possibly why they tell you not to go there. Some carts uses a spring with a ball bearing as the seal valve mechanism. Some use a rubber disc. On some large format carts, the outlet valve system is a little more secure with a screw cap. But you are correct in treading carefully in that area.

Once the bubbles or air column is in the line it can go nowhere except either through the head and out through the nozzles or get trapped at a high point. If it settles out, it might get caught at some upper point, only to rear its peskiness when a head cleaning is done and it gets pulled down to the nozzles and the swearing starts.

Just remember that bubbles always settle at the top, The intake to the outlet valve to the cartridge is at the bottom so the pickup of bubbles is pretty much gone within a couple seconds when the cartridge stands upright. It's inside the passages that creates the pesky issues and resultant problems.

I'm too long winded on this but it is a key issue with Epsons but know that air is its' enemy.

 

[pharmacist]

Just a update. I tried a nozzle check print and it improved a bit, not completely. I performed another cleaning cycle....almost good now, but still a few nozzles clogged. I wait for 15 minutes and performed another cleaning cycle. Hell, what is happening ??? It became worse. I believe it is now cleaning cycle number 15.

Well I wait for next day to come and see if this tenacious problem will go away. I am almost feeling embarassed to write this review. I had some problems with my Inkrepublic I-refill system before (a defective tuning chip the first time, the problem with air trapped inside the tubing system as they forget to tell to prime the cartridges, but it was solved after only 2-3 cleaning cycles).

 

[websnail]

I'd definitely be thinking seriously about using one of the bottom fill (pull through) adapters to prime the problem cartridges.

The points about potential damage are negated so long as you remember to insert the adapter carefully as if it were the ink receiver/spigot. A luer slip syringe will do at a pinch but given your concerns I'd look more to using actual adapters.

 

[irvweiner]

Pharmacist: Excellent preliminary report. First class!

Most illuminating because the chipset on my Inkjetfly 3880 Evaluation cart set-- 'normal size' (smallfoot) requires all 9 OEM chips. I'm quite certain that this new chipset style will work on the IJF 'smallfoot' carts--and definitely should be supplied on all new sales. In fact for the smallfoot it is almost mandatory--the cart refill port is located in front, 2/3rds down from the top of the cart. The cart must be removed for refilling each time resulting in 2 potential problems:
.
1: Excess wear and tear on the output port and seal

2: As you discovered (and I found out 2 months ago) the stability of the contact pins is tenuous at best, pulling the carts out each time for refill will also pull your hair out! These carts must be made top fill to minimize handling. It appears that present users can correct this situation by creating a new fill hole and matching plug.

My evaluation kit arrived with 2 cart labels floating freely from their carts, this is not trivial because each master chip is associated with a color and must be mated properly. Leo Chang suggested I insert the carts without ink into the printer and correct the problem, this became a shell game because more than 2 carts were in question and I had a running shell game. I will request Leo to supply me with new 2 master chipset (plus the waste cart chip) so I can complete my testing. The auto resetting waste card chip is a very big factor that should not be overlooked for this product--low cost refilling will result in greater printer usage especially where matte and photo black ink will be auto swapped more frequently. The chip should come with a small adhesive backed sign: "Have you checked your waste tank recently?"

Your comments about priming are well taken, I raised the same question and was advised that priming the carts is a minimal effort--9 sizable carts and their 'fue'l lines is not a minimal or trivial air purge effort. A separate detailed instruction sheet must be included--this is where the user gets turned or 'pssd' off and will vent his anger on the web.

Again, many thanks for your continuing super efforts. irv weiner

 

[fortisi876]

Anyone sell those auto reset chips for the maintenance tank separately?

I was going to pull the trigger and buy a set of those new carts with the chips but until I see some better reviews I'm holding off.