Refilling Pro-200 with inks for Pro-100? A Good idea?

Artur5

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I never had real trouble with cyan or magenta. Yellow was the only ink a bit troublesome in my first MB5150. Just small gaps in the nozzle test, but it annoyed me.

As you Maxify users surely know, you have to be careful replacing a cart. My advice is never start printing a regular job right after the machine has primed the printhead. First print a nozzle check. Usually there's cross contamination and an additional cleaning cycle needs to be performed. If you're lucky, the second nozzle test will be fine. If so, then print immediately some pages containing the color of the ink that you replaced. That seems to equalize pressures somehow.

Yesterday, being in a hurry, after replacing the black cart, I skipped the extra cleaning cycle and I continued the printing job leaving the machine unattended for some time. Coming back, I was greeted by the horrible sight of a bunch of pages glued together with blotches of black ink. Another sheet of paper was stuck in the rear. Maybe I over refilled the cart because it never happened this to me before. I needed to perform a cleaning cycle for all four colors and then an extra one for the black before the nozzle check was fine and, of course, I had to remove the sheet of paper stuck and clean the ink spilled on the printing plate.

Maxifys are merciless with careless users. :rolleyes:
 
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mikling

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Catching up a bit now.
 

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stratman

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Catching up a bit now.
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"Closer comparison" to what? You did not properly label your images again. Your aftermarket ink with a custom ICC on Red River paper vs ??? ink on Red River paper using a Canon ICC, not a custom ICC for the ink-paper-printer combination?

Red River does have custom printer profiles for the Canon pro-200 and OEM Canon ink, so you could have done more an apples to apples comparison with the aftermarket paper.

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/canon-pro-200-icc-printer-color-profiles.html

Unless you are using an ICC designed for the ink-paper-printer then your comparison is nice but of indeterminate value in judging how it performs against OEM ink with a proper ICC printer profile. You know this. You make your own ICC printer profiles.
 

The Hat

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Catching up a bit now.
I reckon the one on the left looks better than the one on the right, there is a slight difference in its favour, but without proper ink monitoring it will be useless, because we’ll save money on the 3rd party inks but waste it on new print heads.. You’ll need more input to achieve the holy Grail.... Don’t give up.. :thumbsup
 

mikling

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View attachment 12048

"Closer comparison" to what? You did not properly label your images again. Your aftermarket ink with a custom ICC on Red River paper vs ??? ink on Red River paper using a Canon ICC, not a custom ICC for the ink-paper-printer combination?

Red River does have custom printer profiles for the Canon pro-200 and OEM Canon ink, so you could have done more an apples to apples comparison with the aftermarket paper.

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/canon-pro-200-icc-printer-color-profiles.html

Unless you are using an ICC designed for the ink-paper-printer then your comparison is nice but of indeterminate value in judging how it performs against OEM ink with a proper ICC printer profile. You know this. You make your own ICC printer profiles.
If you can get better, there is a$1000 on the line,.
 
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mikling

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I reckon the one on the left looks better than the one on the right, there is a slight difference in its favour, but without proper ink monitoring it will be useless, because we’ll save money on the 3rd party inks but waste it on new print heads.. You’ll need more input to achieve the holy Grail.... Don’t give up.. :thumbsup
If you can get better, Like I said, there is a $1000 on the table for you.

Make sure your bank account is up to snuff.

All we get are the armchair critics, well show me better. $1000 is a lot of money. Put up or shut up.
 

The Hat

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All we get are the armchair critics, well show me better. $1000 is a lot of money. Put up or shut up.
My, my @mikling, here was I trying to encourage you to do better and not give up on your refilling request and you dismissed my comments with utter shite and rudeness, I reckon you only deserve criticism for the way you threat this forum and its members..

With comment like your it’s no wonder your such a disgruntle old fart that has no time for anyone but themselves, did you ever consider failure, because it’s another great option.. O’ and have a nice day in your own company...

Make sure your bank account is up to snuff.
All you care about is money…You’ve got my Sympathy…:)
 

Ink stained Fingers

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the left part of the image is printed on a Red River Ultra Pro Satin 4 with a custom profile for a PC65SE inkset printed on a Pro-200, the right print is done on the same paper using the profile for the Canon Photo Paper Pro Luster (with the Canon inkset or the PC65SE inkset ?), both prints look pretty similar to me, with the same color balance, but I won't go and read color variances from the screen, and I would not try to print a paper with a profile for a different paper in the first place, this may work in this case, but not in other cases - e.g. with a Satin paper by another company.
 

The Hat

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and I would not try to print a paper with a profile for a different paper in the first place, this may work in this case, but not in other cases - e.g. with a Satin paper by another company.
It’s all meant to be smoke and mirrors just to get the publicity and ain’t I a great guy for giving you all a poorer alternative to OEM and not such a not down price, bottle OEM ink may be a more appropriate.. We’ll see..
 

Ink stained Fingers

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Yes, it's all about money - with a product claimed to be 'better' than any other refill ink on the market; but since I don't have any insight into the business aspects let me illustrate some of the variances with inks and profiles.
@mikling is thriving to match the color rendition of the refill inks to the original Canon inks so that customers would get the same colors on their prints as if printed with OEM inks.

Red River just recently has published icc-profiles for the Pro-200 for their papers - for the Canon Pro-200 with Canon inks
https://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/canon-pro-200-icc-printer-color-profiles.html
They use Chromix as their service provider for the icc-profiles, acompany very much engaged in color mgmt services.

@mikling is just tuning the Pro-100 ink set for use with the Pro-200, so profiles are not available yet - but soon as claimed
http://precisioncolors.com/Pro-200.html
I'm comparing here a PC42SE profile for the Pro-100 with the Red River profile for the Pro-200 - I assume it's all for the D50 illumination measured in the M0 mode (in respect to the OBA impact - it is not specified by Red River)

Pro-100-200 Profiles 1.jpg


These are the gamuts at L=50 for the Red River Peco Gloss - the orange line for the Pro-200 measured by Red River/Chromix - and the light blue line for the PC42SE for the Pro-100 - this ink set already has a wider gamut in the green-blue range - the -a quadrants - and trying to match the orange line for the Camon inks/Pro 200 would mean that the already available gamut would need to be reduced - I don't think this can be a design goal.

I'm observing a quirk in the PC42SE profile - at lower lluminance levels - here at L=44 at the +a axis

Pro-100-200 Profiles 2.jpg


These are typically scanning errors of the color patches, it can be overcome by

- multiple scans and averaging the data

- reprinting the patch sheet with a different paper orientation

- or by testing a patch sheet with more or less color patches to see if the quirk is gone at this location

- or using a higher smothing factor for the data scanned

which all depends on the software/hardware used for profile generation

These are effects typically seen on glossy papers and rather glossy silk - lustre type papers caused by irregular reflections between the surface and the sensor. There is a new measurement standard M3 using polarized light to overcome these effects but equipment supporting this is beyond my financial capabilities.
 
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