I'm impressed with this follow-up by Andrea at alotofthings.com. It looks like they are a very serious company with a full understanding of the technology and associated issues!
RE: Skyhorse spongeless cartridge
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:55:06 -0700
Is there a possibility that they had a problem with an initial batch? Sure that is always a possibility.
But, what we do not quite know at this time is whether the batch or batches of cartridges that these people are discussing are from an initial batch, second batch or later.
What we also can not see from here is whether or not these are actually manufactured from the same source. Since many aftermarket companies do not manufacturer their own physical cartridges but simply buy them and fill them with ink we can not see from here whether or not these were indeed manufactured at the same time, from the same mold or even using the same plastic. A company like SkyHorse can currently have their own production for cartridges but also outsource them if they can not keep up with production. They may not actually make them at all.
Want a personal opinion on that issue? I do not believe that the cartridges are manufactured physically by SkyHorse. I believe that they are purchased from a third party. I base this on first generation spongeless cartridges we were receiving vs. second and even third generation. Yes, three generations of these cartridges have been seen here. (technically four if you account for different end caps for the cartridges which were previously orange, not clear.)
First generation of spongeless cartridges contained a clear plastic film that extended over the entire top of the cartridge and the cartridge worked more like the sponge based ones by design. The fill hole was located towards the back of the cartridge and was flush with the top, it was not located on the front of the cartridge. This used a simple air path to regulate the amount of air getting in.
Second set of spongeless cartridges came in similar to the design shown with the orange tab. The difference is that these also had a film covering the entire top of the cartridge. The fill hole was in the same location, but the vent path lead towards the front of the cartridge just in front of the label (if you look at our initial instructions for refilling spongeless refillables:
http://alotofthings.com/viartshop/article.php?category_id=8&article_id=61&page= ).
The third generation that we received contained the orange pull tab as you see in the picture shown under variations in refilling:
http://alotofthings.com/viartshop/article.php?category_id=8&article_id=60&page=
It is doubtful that SkyHorse made these adjustments as quickly as they did batch after batch. (Batch after batch may not be entirely fair to say as there may have actually been a dozen batches in between for all we know.)
Considering the difficulty in acquiring these cartridges where we have actually had to wait months to receive them it is doubtful they manufacture them in house.
Since we do sell a much larger quantity of empty cartridges of this type then pre-filled (about 60-1) we would expect to see the same type of results when individuals are refilling them. There is always an added "x" factor when individuals refill themselves. This can be overfill, under fill, not reading directions, etc, etc. We simply have not received these same types of messages (all this leaking) that appear in this forum. And with refillers we would almost expect to see more of them. If the problem exists with the cartridges leaking like these mentioned then no one is telling us about it.
I would also like to point out one other thing: These cartridges would not make a good long lasting CISS cartridge. They are actually proving to be extremely problematic in CISS units to many of those who have tried making them out of these cartridges.
Just a few extra notes on the cartridges: If you take a close look at these cartridges you'll notice that there is a small slit on the plastic "tube" inside the cartridge leading from the exit port. This in part replicates the "wall" or dam used in other types of cartridges of sponge / reservoir design. Along with that dam is a normal wall dam just offset the center of the cartridge. These two dams are designed to reduce pressure on the sponge material. The sponge of course is designed to have a specific retention rate to hold back the ink. This retention along with the small amount of sponge material located in the vent tube towards the back of the cartridge replaces the entire sponge normally found in sponge / reservoir designed cartridges.
If the problem exists in localized batches the problem may not be the plastic and the length of the plastic exit port, but instead the sponge material or placement of the sponge material. If inserting the cartridge into the printer results in the loss of ink then the if the incorrect sponge material or a sponge material with a lower surface tension would probably encourage the ink to leak once it is deformed slightly when inserting into the print head. That of course is a hypothesis. I am questioning this aspect though based on a similar cartridge we have seen SkyHorse manufacture in the past which was for an Epson printer but was designed exactly like the BCI-3e (
http://alotofthings.com/viartshop/article.php?category_id=10&article_id=40&page= ) . There were refillable spongeless identical in design to the BCI-3e with the exception that the sponge material was not the same as used in these cartridges.
Hey, if you do not mind could you at least mention that your email sent to us was sent on Sunday 7/2/06 , 7:26pm Pacific time and answered Monday 7/3/06 12:13pm Pacific. When you posted your initial message you only gave us four hours on a Sunday night to respond.
Oh, forgot one last thing: Let's cut to the chase since this will eventually be brought up at some time. if SkyHorse are good cartridges why are we getting rid of them?
In a recent 6 month comparison we allowed consumer to purchase a variety of cartridges and compare them under various conditions. Though SkyHorse was well rated both for initial out of the box use and for refill ability we have decided to discontinue the line of cartridges completely.
We are no longer going to be carrying the ArrowJet / SkyHorse line of cartridges for several reasons, the primary one being that inconsistency of product availability. Orders we have placed for product have taken as long as 5 months to receive. The inability to receive product by SkyHorse is not perceived by consumers to be a manufacturer issue, but our shortcoming. Since this issue of lack of product availability is too consistent and causes a great deal of headaches here we have decided that the trade off it not worth it.
Andrea D.
www.alotofthings.com
