OEM Cli-8 strange behaviour

[Jerry1111]

Hi,

I've just bought an MP610 printer (was difficult to find). Excellent thing I must say!
The question: I'm still on original inks (printed ~50 photos,ink levels indicators dropped one bar). I've taken the tanks out (to have a look at remaining ink levels and the device in general).
I've noticed that when I hold the tanks vertically (sponge towards bottom) there is a lot of small bubbles coming from the sponge into the ink reservoir through the bottom gap in all 3 CMY carts (couldn't check blacks - those are full). Is it normal/usual?

Best Regards,

Jerry1111

 

[jflan]

While performing this "experiment" you are creating head pressure and forcing more ink into sponge.
Air is being displaced faster than it can bleed through the breather vent, so you see those bubbles.
Fact is, the vent is probably submerged at that abnormal attitude and is not available. If held that way long enough the vent will likely spill ink.

No stop playing and get back to work

 

[Tin Ho]

Jerry, what you did is actually quite normal to Canon OEM ink cartridges. What has happened is after you printed 50 photos (I guess thse are 4x6 photos) you have depleted quite a bit of ink from within the sponge. At the point and beyond if you keep printing ink will be released from the reservoir tank into the sponge, from where it is sucked into the print head and continue to be consumed. The ink in the reservoir tank will only be released when air is entered into the reservoir through the hole at the bottom between the sponge chamber and the reservoir tank.

If you remove an ink cartridge and flip it up (the reservoir tank up and sponge chamber down) a lot of air in the depleted sponge gets the chance to move into the reservoir and causes a lot of ink to be released into the sponge. The air will stop moving into the reservoir tank when the sponge is mostly saturated with ink. If you put the cartridge back into the printer at that point and continue to print ink will be consumed out of the sponge again, rather than getting it out of the reservoir tank, until the sponge is almost depleted out of ink again.

Jflan is right about not playing with cartridges that way for no reasons. Each time you remove a cartridge air is allowed to get into the print head. This is a potential cause of print head clog. You will notice that the printer will run a cleaning cycle after you remove and replace an ink cartridge and command it to print. The cleaning cycle is to get rid of the air that gets in the print head to avoid development of a clog. Such cleaning cycles cause a lot of ink wasted. So you really should not remove any ink cartridges without a valid reason. If you refill you will have to remove cartridges for ink level checking. But you will not keep doing it everyday. You want to do it once a week so that you do not waste too much ink.

If I remove my cartridges for ink level checking, or I removed them for refilling, I will always do a couple of nozzle checks to make sure the print head is back to normal after the cleaning cycle is done.

 

[Jerry1111]

While performing this "experiment" you are creating head pressure and forcing more ink into sponge.
Air is being displaced faster than it can bleed through the breather vent, so you see those bubbles.

That's what I don't understand with the 'balance' of that cartridge. Those bubbles are indicating that there is enough air in the sponge area (no underpressure) and that air is just being 'replaced' with ink. So how does the ink flows on its own? It looks for me like a small contradiction - just checked that the vent goes into the sponge area, not the ink reservoir.

Fact is, the vent is probably submerged at that abnormal attitude and is not available. If held that way long enough the vent will likely spill ink.

I'm not worried about any ink spillages - printer is <30 days old, so it's a good time if something might go wrong ;-)

No stop playing and get back to work

Print more photos

Jerry, what you did is actually quite normal to Canon OEM ink cartridges. What has happened is after you printed 50 photos (I guess thse are 4x6 photos) you have depleted quite a bit of ink from within the sponge. At the point and beyond if you keep printing ink will be released from the reservoir tank into the sponge, from where it is sucked into the print head and continue to be consumed.

So the cartridge is made in a way that guarantees no ink-starvation? I mean I should be able to print a 'yellow page' full of ink and there will be no problem with ink supply? Then that raises the question about ink drying in the sponge - maybe it's a good way to keep more parts of the sponge properly wetted which should minimize the need to purge between refills.

The ink in the reservoir tank will only be released when air is entered into the reservoir through the hole at the bottom between the sponge chamber and the reservoir tank.

But what will force the air that way? For that to happen we need an almost dry sponge!

If you remove an ink cartridge and flip it up (the reservoir tank up and sponge chamber down) a lot of air in the depleted sponge gets the chance to move into the reservoir and causes a lot of ink to be released into the sponge. The air will stop moving into the reservoir tank when the sponge is mostly saturated with ink. If you put the cartridge back into the printer at that point and continue to print ink will be consumed out of the sponge again, rather than getting it out of the reservoir tank, until the sponge is almost depleted out of ink again.

Exactly - sponge gets dry and I'm not sure if it's a good idea (for refillers of course, not for heavy OEM-users).

Jflan is right about not playing with cartridges that way for no reasons. Each time you remove a cartridge air is allowed to get into the print head. This is a potential cause of print head clog. You will notice that the printer will run a cleaning cycle after you remove and replace an ink cartridge and command it to print. The cleaning cycle is to get rid of the air that gets in the print head to avoid development of a clog. Such cleaning cycles cause a lot of ink wasted. So you really should not remove any ink cartridges without a valid reason. If you refill you will have to remove cartridges for ink level checking. But you will not keep doing it everyday. You want to do it once a week so that you do not waste too much ink.

For refills I'm going to order a resetter, so won't have to remove the tanks. At the moment I'm just 'discovering' the printer - after all I always was an HP-guy. It's my first Canon - so far so good. Ordered 2nd set of carts, to keep one set always refilled.

If I remove my cartridges for ink level checking, or I removed them for refilling, I will always do a couple of nozzle checks to make sure the print head is back to normal after the cleaning cycle is done.

That was good in HP - I was just topping the carts with ink. No checking at all - never required. It just started to print darker and darker colors (and I was using only 1 kind of ink during those 2 years - from OCP).

Best,

Jerry1111

 

[Jerry1111]

While performing this "experiment" you are creating head pressure and forcing more ink into sponge.
Air is being displaced faster than it can bleed through the breather vent, so you see those bubbles.
Fact is, the vent is probably submerged at that abnormal attitude and is not available. If held that way long enough the vent will likely spill ink.

OTOH when OEM carts are being shipped those are probably rotated in all possible driections (loading/unloading). Also when you're taking those home you're likely to hold those upside-down at least for a moment (there's no warnings 'this side up'). So (at least in theory) it shouldn't have any impact on ink pressure or anything like that. At least it's my 'early' understanding of Canon inks.

Best,

Jerry1111

 

[Tin Ho]

So the cartridge is made in a way that guarantees no ink-starvation? I mean I should be able to print a 'yellow page' full of ink and there will be no problem with ink supply? Then that raises the question about ink drying in the sponge - maybe it's a good way to keep more parts of the sponge properly wetted which should minimize the need to purge between refills.

Jerry1111

You are right that Canon OEM cartridges with OEM ink is made to be free from ink starvation, but except when excessive ink is dried up from the sponge after a bit of ink is already consumed from it. This is particularly true for BCI-3ebk and PGI5 ink cartridges with pigment black ink in them. It's not that much of a problem for BCI6 and CLI8 ink cartridges with dye based ink. You can print a full sheet of a single color without causing any problems. Printing a full page of a single color does present a toughest challenge to the print head and ink cartridge of that color. If ink starvation occur in the middle of printing it could subsequently clog or kill the print head. I say it could, not it will. Most likely you will see banding or the single color printed not as saturated as it should. You will begin to see a color cast or banding in your photos. It would be difficult to cure the print head beyond that point.

I am not sure if it is better or to be the opposite to keep the sponge more saturated. If the cartridge together with the ink is in good working order it doesn't matter. If otherwise the cartridge is restricting ink supply to the print head it does not matter if the sponge is more saturated or not. If you refill with OEM ink cartridges then the ink you use becomes the single variable to a problem free refilling for your printer. Good qwuality ink will need to have correct physical property that is compatible with OEM ink.

To avoid clogging from happening one simple solution is to frequently purge your OEM cartridges if you refill them repeatedly. I found it a very good strategy to purge my PGI5 every time before it is refilled. I would only purge my CLI8s once every few months. Do a nozzle check and carefully check the print to make sure everything is perfect after refilling or after a cartridge is removed and replaced for any reason.

By the way, printing a full page of a single color is used as a print head purging process for Epson printers. It is for Epson printers. It will not achieve the purpose of purging for Canon or HP printers. It could damage the printer instead if there is a problem in ink flow from cartridges. If you do a lot of color graphics printing, which will print large single color blocks frequently, you will want to make sure your ink cartridges (and the ink in them) are in good working order. You could easily damage your print head if you use cheap aftermarket poor quality ink cartridges.

 

[pharmacist]

I now have refilled a BCI-3eBk cartridge now for the 5th time without any problems of ink feeding, and I used 100 % pigment ink (KMP) and this cartridge is still going well and strong and not any sign of ink starvation or blockage. Maybe because I refill it immediately after the cartridge is registered as empty by my printer. I refill this cartridge every 1.5-2 months depending on my printing needs.

 

[Tin Ho]

I understand and believe that completely. If you refill frequently it will be fine for you. But for someone who takes a long time to use up a PGI5 it gives so much time for some ink to dry up in the sponge. That would be a different story. I have not used KMP pigment black ink. I have heard that it is an excellent ink. I believe that is a factor to problem free printing too. Thanks for your comment.