Interesting take on the Freedom Method Rig from Rjettek Video

[jtoolman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yr7ZfYdAfw&feature=g-all-u&context=G2909866FAAAAAAAAAAA

I'm pretty sure I can fabricate this rig except for the little vacumm pump.
Sort of makes refilling Canon Carts way too easy.

 

[PeterBJ]

I would not spend any time nor money building a replica of this system. Note from video at 2:56 that sponges are over-saturated and Ink camber is under-filled. This could be because the ink goes straight down, this equipment hasn't got the important right angle bend. Also some forum members trying out the Freedom Refill Method have found that it is important not to rush things to avoid over-saturating the sponges. Easy does it.

I also noted it was claimed that no electricity is used in generating the vacuum, it is generated from an ejector powered by compressed air. And what powers that compressor? Diesel perhaps? Really a convincing sales video!

And apropos diesel, turn up volume on your PC speakers and click to listen to to the sound of refilling: http://www.oldengineshed.com/waves/listersl.wav I guess that refilling a cartridge at 2 AM would get me evicted from my apartment and earn me my fifteen minutes of fame on CNN

 

[Grandad35]

I'm pretty sure I can fabricate this rig except for the little vacuum pump.

There are lots of commercial units to choose from, but you need to determine the vacuum level and scfm that you require to make sure that you buy the correct pump. Since these pumps can use a lot of compressed air, make sure that your compressor can deliver the pressure and flow required. Make sure that you do your homework on this before ordering.

http://www.vac-cube.com/ Three stage for higher vacuum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icqagTd7yOY Video of the vac-cube
http://www.airvacpumps.com/UVpump.htm
http://www.hyvac.com/products/o_pumps/air venturi/air_venturi_vacuum.htm
http://www.vaccon.com/venturi-vacuum-pumps-as.aspx
http://www.anver.com/document/vacuum components/vacuum generators/pumps-jv.htm
http://www.2linc.com/venturi_vacuum.htm
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70070721

On the original video, I noted that the cart was far from full when the cycle was complete. Was this because the vacuum wasn't all that high or because they didn't put enough ink in the syringe? OTOH, more ink would probably preferentially fill the sponge chamber rather than the ink chamber.

Sorry for the overlap - I was composing my reply when PeterBJ replied.

 

[jtoolman]

It appears that the operator is only putting about 7-8 ml in the syringe. Would that be the reason the ink chamber is not filled fully? Though I have no idea what the average ink chamber volume in a typical Canon cart is.

I am just curious as I have never really tried the freedom ( Vacuum ) method and I currently refill my CLI-9 OEM ( PRO 9000 MKII ) by top filling
use whenever they are about 80% down in the ink chamber. Removed factory ball and tapered plugs for good sealing. My sponges do not seem to ever become fully saturated in their upper region which is the way they originally looked when new. So I think I am doing OK so far.

According to the sales lady Linda Hurt at Rjettek. This type of rig is being used by so called Universal ink ( yuck ) refilling business to refill Canon carts though their major bulk of their business tends to be refilling Lexmark and HP type carts.

I can easily fabricate on of them and just use the syringe to do the refilling. I have a full machine shop at my disposal and being retired it might be a fun project to do just for the hell of it. I've been machining prototypes fabricating tools for about 30 years so this should be pretty easy.

 

[pharmacist]

Actually this is this the original system developed by OCP Germany a few years before the "freedom method" was "discovered". Thus it is a......german refill method. I did make a remark on this when the freedom method was introduced, the underlying principals already existed, but nobody seems to take notice of this...

 

[ghwellsjr]

Actually this is this the original system developed by OCP Germany a few years before the "freedom method" was "discovered". Thus it is a......german refill method. I did make a remark on this when the freedom method was introduced, the underlying principals already existed, but nobody seems to take notice of this...

Can you please provide a link to where you made this remark and where nobody seemed to take notice?

 

[rodbam]

Here's a link I posted last year of the same sort of thing but without the vacuum pump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_d7X-QV98

 

[jtoolman]

Sure. But don't forget that here in the US, Rjettek is OCP's distributor for all their products so I've seen the Easyfill unit show in the video you posted. The one I posted is their little vacuum filler for Canon carts. It comes with various adapters for different carts. It cost a ridiculous $150 and you use a syringe.
They added a single tow way valve as used in any hospital for IV fluids when you add a supplemental fluid. That plus a the vacuum punp which you don't eally need.

 

[Tudor]

I think pharmacist was talking about the title of this thread. The title suggests that the people from rjettek saw the freedom refilling method and developed their own easyfill, cabox1,2 and so on. Actually it was the other way around.

I didn't like their devices because of overfilling of the sponge and space between the sponge and breathing hole. I tried the modified version (aka freedom method) but got the same results. This would be a perfect, non-invasive method of refilling if you would have the breathing hole shut while applying the vacuum, then opened in a controlled manner when letting the ink in, so you would fill the ink reservoir, but not oversaturate the sponge. There should be some calculations involved to see when should the breathing hole be opened and at what rate should the air be allowed to flow in.

Is there a physicist/mechanical engineer in the house?

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

There are a couple of problems to overcome here, and it's worth considering what's going on. The first problem is that if you fill the ink chamber 90% full, you are also going to fill the sponge chamber and vent system 90% full. That may be too much, and you may oversaturate the sponge chamber.

The second problem is that if you want to fill completely, you need either a pretty good vacuum, or you need multiple strokes. If you want to fill it completely, then you need a fairly good vacuum. (I'm not entirely sure whether those cheap pumps are good enough, but let's assume that they are.) If you want 90% fill, then you have to remove 90% of the air. A complete fill with a syringe requires multiple strokes, as in the freedom method.

Multiple strokes has one disadvantage. The filter in the cartridge port is an excellent bubble blower, and depending on your ink, you could have foam that may take a considerable time to collapse. If you take multiple strokes, you may find yourself reinjecting foam with each stroke unless you have a lot of excess ink in the syringe. The foam will be the last to go back into the cartridge, and you will then have lots of air right by the port. Not good. With the vacuum pump, they simply discarded the foam, and with it all the ink that's already there. EDIT: You can beat this problem by having a lot of excess ink in the syringe.

OK, let's assume that you use a good enough vacuum pump for a fairly complete fill with one stroke. You have two choices. The easiest is probably to underfill, as in the video. Another method is to open the vent and withdraw a little ink as a final step. That's what I do. You could get fancy and fill it partially, then open the vent to release the vacuum in the sponge chamber, then allow the syringe to empty. Tudor suggested this while I was typing. This last method is a little bit complicated, but not difficult. You just have to decide how much.

By the way, the vacuum has been well understood for several hundred years, and the idea of vacuum filling through the port has been around too. Ghwellsjr is the first I know to use that nice, simple adapter.