Ink Volumes: Your thoughts..

[websnail]

Having hit something of a problem with sourcing appropriate bottles that fit the SquEasyFill caps I'm trying to work out the best approach to providing inks in volumes that people want but in a way that makes sense.

To date I've had access to:
50ml
60ml
100ml
125ml
250ml
...bottles but due to problems with manufacturers going bust, lines being re-tooled, etc... I'm now losing access to suitable bottles for 60ml, 100ml and 250ml volumes.

The key limitation in all of this is the neck size required by the caps. This is quite small and limits the options, especially for larger volumes.

I could regain a stock of the 60ml bottles if I were to import but the cost implications are quite dire, and frankly the benefit of a smaller volume is lost if the bottle cost means it'd be cheaper to put 60ml in a 125ml bottle instead.


As to the 250ml or higher, the only option has been a tall, small diameter base which makes them prone to falling over, so that's not ideal either.

Another key factor with larger bottles is that a 250ml bottle is actually quite heavy and less comfortable to hold, so I find myself wondering if perhaps it would be better to switch larger volumes to non-SquEasyFill type but with a fixed spout cap that would allow them to easily refill the smaller 125ml bottles. This would make the 125ml bottles the default SquEasyFill kit and adds an element of extra waste but seems to resolve the technical limitations in a simpler, more sensible way.

The alternative is to go with bottles that have a wider neck size and go the manufacturing/customisation route by converting caps to integrate the luer fitting (much like I've done with Canon flush clips). This would however have cost implications both cash and time wise, as the caps would have be built by hand.


So, with all this in mind I'm asking for your input on the following:

1. Would you consider a 50ml volume a good volume for a starter refill kit, even for say the pigment black (if applicable)?

2. For larger volumes (250ml+), would you view the weight and extra cost issues, of making them SquEasyFill compatible, less attractive if the bottles could be decanted into SquEasyFill 125ml bottles easily?





Right... the next question is about volume availability...

For Canon printers I'm making inks available as follows:

Starter bundles
50ml Dye inks
60ml Pigment Black (will be switching to 50ml once stock runs out for 60ml bottles)

Standard bundles
100ml Dye inks
125ml Pigment black


In your opinion, would it be worth switching to:
Starter: Include 125ml Pigment black with the other 50ml bottles rather than dropping the pigment black to 50ml too?
Standard: Up the volumes in dye inks to make them all 125ml (pigment and dye)?


I'm just aware that the jump might be a bit too much for some users but I'd be interested in your thoughts and rational before I make any decisions...

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...

 

[Tudor]

Bottles bigger than 125ml are hard to use with the SquEasyFill caps, so I always pour the ink from the 250ml bottle into the 125ml bottle and use that to refill.
250ml or higher are just containers to store extra ink, it doesn't matter if they fit the SquEasyFill caps or not.

In your opinion, would it be worth switching to:
Starter: Include 125ml Pigment black with the other 50ml bottles rather than dropping the pigment black to 50ml too?

Maybe include an option to choose the PGBK size?

 

[santer]

Isn't the waste more or less the same, as you throw an empty 250ml but retain the 125ml as a re-useable?

If, as usual, the ink is cheaper to buy the larger bottle it is in, and also as it doesn't need a special top, most should see the advantage of the larger bottles.

I would have thought it is unlikely that the extra step of 250ml bottle to 125ml bottle will put anyone off.

Would it be easier to remove the 60ml and 100ml from the list, to give options of 50ml or 125ml and then 250ml and above as refills, though once you get above 500ml, do you end up with the same sort of ease of use problem due to its size and weight?

 

[fotofreek]

I use 2 oz. (just short of 60 ml.) squeeze bottles as they are easy to handle and fit my hand well. No problem refilling them from larger containers.

 

[Emulator]

I was just throwing out some empty ink bottles and caps. I have retreived them and will now hoard them for the future!!
I have no strong views, but filling small bottles from large bottles does have a great potential for an expensive mess.
I think I would favour the 125mL size.

Is the bottle cost such that it is worth considering bottle re-cycling?

 

[PeterBJ]

I refill Canon printers using the BCI-3e/6, PGI-5/CLI-8, and PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges. Some inks are common to ink sets for more than one cartridge series, some inks are used only in one ink set, and some inks are used more than others.

I find the sizes of 100 (or 125)ml and 250 ml suitable for my needs, and I have no problems using the 250 ml bottles with SqueasyFill caps.

For the 250 ml bottles I wouldn't like the new tall design, but accept it, if there are no alternatives. I wouldn't dare to use a home made SqueasyFill cap. This is the alternative I would prefer:

Another key factor with larger bottles is that a 250ml bottle is actually quite heavy and less comfortable to hold, so I find myself wondering if perhaps it would be better to switch larger volumes to non-SquEasyFill type but with a fixed spout cap that would allow them to easily refill the smaller 125ml bottles. This would make the 125ml bottles the default SquEasyFill kit and adds an element of extra waste but seems to resolve the technical limitations in a simpler, more sensible way.

I also like the lower price per ml when you buy 250 ml bottles of ink. If you decide to standardize and sell only 125 ml bottles, I would like a similar rebate if you buy two or more bottles of the same ink.

For the starter and standard kits, I think this would be a good idea, as you use more pigment ink than each of the dye inks if you print mostly plain paper documents.

In your opinion, would it be worth switching to:
Starter: Include 125ml Pigment black with the other 50ml bottles rather than dropping the pigment black to 50ml too?
Standard: Up the volumes in dye inks to make them all 125ml (pigment and dye)?

 

[The Hat]

I have look over this thread twice just to see it from both sides Buyer/ Seller point of view.

When Newbies are tempted down the road to refill, they tend not to spend too much on getting started
just in case it doesnt work out for them, and also because they cant see the huge benefits theyll gain from refilling later.

So I think by keeping all the starter kits small say, 50/60 ml bottles can only be a big encouragement to them.

The SquEasy bottle for refilling have really taken off and guys who use this bottle/syringe method
are completely sold on the idea and if you have to ask why ? Then try it and see is the answer.

The current 125 ml bottle is just about right and any bigger is pushing it for hand strain problems,
one or two refills ok but for a dozen or more, it can get repetitive and tuff, becides I am not getting any younger either.

Bottle Size..

The answer is not that simple to solve larger bottles are better on the pocket but useless for refilling,
and smaller bottles are dearer so why not try to satisfy all your customers by offering them two types and sizes of bottle.

Newbies as I said 50/60 ml including pigment black, then 125 ml and 250 ml for the rest,
and the more they buy the cheaper it should get, plus restrict the SquEasy caps to the smaller bottles (125 Ml).

I prefer to use my SquEasy bottles when only half full because there much lighter on my hands and am less lightly to drop them,
I would like to see the Volume in Ml. printed on the label and the word Pigment / Dye in bold also..

 

[jimbo123]

been using squeeze bottles for nearly 5 years now, before Martin's SquEasyFill kits were available.

i use the 4oz(approx 120ml) bottles. when needed i refill the 4oz bottles with larger bottles, 8oz, 16oz and now 32oz..... pretty easy to pour/refill once you get the hang of it. it's like refilling carts, you make a few mistakes early on, learn from them.

i did buy 2 sets of Martin's SquEasyFill kits as gifts for 2 friends i started up refilling, they love them

here is video link(2010 era) to some squeeze bottle refilling german style, along with a few clumsy attempts at a reset
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G6MVUEgyjc

now at over 450 cart refills over the past 5 years

J

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Printers: Canon MP830, IP4500, MX700, MX860, MX870, MP980
Method: German Durchstich Method
Ink: Hobbicolors and OCP
Misc: Squeeze bottles - so much easier than syringes

 

[websnail]

Thanks for the input folks... I've been crazy busy so only just got back after a few days of enforced hard work...

So to summarise it seems:
- I've gotten a little carried away with the idea of trying to keep SquEasyFill going for the larger (read: bigger than 125ml) volumes.
- Price is a higher priority issue for larger volumes and decanting is considered a small price to pay
- Volumes of 50ml are a good option for starter kits with 125ml as standard
- Additional ink volumes of 250ml, 500ml would be welcome


Also take on board the change in labelling to include the volume... Unfortunately on that score I've just taken delivery of a fair few vinyl labels to replace the inkjet printable ones in use till 2 weeks ago so it'll be a while before I can adjust the design and incorporate it into future bottling... I need to think about the cost and "hassle" implications for adding the info' given what I've learned from the new labels I've just gotten in but I'll certainly think about it.

I'll now be taking a look at bottle suppliers to get samples and check what they're like for sealing, etc... as switching does mean that not only will I be switching to larger bottles but I'll also having to buy in Induction Heat Sealed caps for the new cap/neck size too. Could be a bit costly to start with but in the mean time I will apply an appropriate discount on larger quantities, etc...

You'd think this stuff was easy wouldn't you... but somehow it gets all complicated...

Thanks again...