Important : Canon Pro-100 Cli-42 Yellow Ink

[mikling]

Pharmacist, when the refill ink is mixed in lke 50/50 or even 10/100 it mixes ok and stable. When it is mixed so that very little of Canon ink is present as compared to refill ink something occurs. Recall that Hat refilled 5-6 times before his trouble started.

When I detect the semi dried particles in the ink, they redissolved with some movement of the refill ink. So it appears it is not a reaction that makes that particle/glob stay out of solution. It appears that when the Canon ink dries it indeed separated from the refill ink somehow, is washed off and remains in a gel like state until it redissolves back into the refill ink. I discovered this by accident in a way

The above appears separate from a low level dilution factor when the Canon ink is heavily diuted in water and refill ink. And eventually I discovered a similar reaction but not quite the same when the Canon ink is heavily diluted in refill ink.

There could be two maybe three parts all different to this story but one fact remains. STAY AWAY FROM THIS CLI_42Y ink when refilling. Get it out of the system as soon as the it empties and throw it out.

Will flushing remove ALL of what is causing this? I don't know. All I can say is the safe way is to handle it is to dispose of the cartridge when empty. There are too many potential issues which I cannot explain and with the help of others maybe can be explained eventually. It took 7-8 months before any reports of issues started to crop up and several hundred users and I reacted immediately to when I heard of an issue with the first one and began digging further and could not find it ONLY the first crack happened by accident as I described. So the problem with the ink is not obvious at first but it will occur over time as we see.

I appreciate websnail remarks in another thread that it does not occur with his ink but I wonder how much testing he has personally done and to what extent. Maybe he can elaborate on exactly how he came to that conclusion as to how long his ink has been in use and amongst how many users as a sample size.

 

[mikling]

And some swellable papers are/were made with gelatin. Interesting observation of different drying processes

I guess the photos show close ups of ink drops applied on paper by a pipette?

No not on paper but on glass dishes to see how it might dry on the sponge. Paper would disguise what happens in the cartridge.

 

[mikling]

Mike,

Have been staring at the wording from your final two sentences in the message above for some hours, and am still confused. Not knocking your work, I am just not sure what is being said.

Have reproduced the paragraph below and reading the final two sentences (Now in bold) you seem to be saying that the same yellow compatibility problem exists with the 9000ii PC inks and the CLI-8 carts.

If I am reading that correctly, then how will changing the 42 chip to a CLI-8 cart overcome the problem?

I must be missing something in translation, but the language is somewhat ambiguous.

Can you clarify for dimwits like me?
The PC42-Y ink is made by IS and sold to normal refillers under another number. It is more widely used than the yellow ink in the Pro-9000 and on other CLI-8 Y and has been used for over ten years by millions of users. So this PC42-Y is not a new ink. I selected it to because it met the physical requirements of the printhead and its color more closely matched the color of the CLI-42 Y than what was used on the Pro9000. The ink used on the Pro9000 has identical issues as seen on the PC42-Y. So
there appears no easy solution to this or else I would have taken that route.

Roy

If the yellow ink as had been used in refilling the Pro9000 is mixed with the CLI-42Y ink, similar reactions are seen. The PC42Y ink is not the same ink as used in the Pro9000 refill ink but is in fact another ink that is also used in similar thermal printheads and is more widely used and has been used for over 10 years. So the issue is not the PC42Y ink in itself as that has a proven history that surpasses that of the ink as used in the Pro9000 with no problems. Remanufacturers and refillers use it regularly and I dare to say that millions of refills have happened with that ink amongst users with no similar issue.

 

[mikling]

In the meantime, since this is the only forum I hang out on and less these days as this issue has consumed days and days of testing and observations, I have not been diligent in getting emails replied to and am behind on my fulfilling requests.

I will ask that others spread this warning about the complexity of the CLI-42Y ink and its potential problems in other forums. I thank Hat for his own contrbutions, and others' contributions towards understanding this problem and despite my best efforts in trying to offer a problem free product, I might have failed due to the tricky and complex nature of this ink that I honestly believe no one could have seen this coming but I might be wrong.

Users of the PC42Y ink can obtain an immediate solution from the following link:

http://www.precisioncolors.com/PC42cart.html

This is not a ploy to extract all of $3 from them but I want to see that they obtain the best solution there is which is to bypass the CLI-42Y cartridge altogether.

 

[websnail]

I appreciate websnail remarks in another thread that it does not occur with his ink

I appreciate you are keen to resolve this and your recollection may be hazy but that is not an accurate representation of my limited input.

My exact words were:

As things stand, (and because I know I'm going to get asked) no we're not seeing the same thing for the CLI-42 inks we have stocked at OctoInkjet but that's not to say we won't see something similar now that we know something is awry. Certainly I'm testing for it now that it has been highlighted

So your follow up comment is not applicable as I certainly have not ruled anything out.

but I wonder how much testing he has personally done and to what extent. Maybe he can elaborate on exactly how he came to that conclusion as to how long his ink has been in use and amongst how many users as a sample size.

Please rephrase your comments in light of the above and note I have quite deliberately avoided casting any blanket statements.

 

[mikling]

Ok, it looks like my recollection is hazy but this is a difficult time due to this surprise of immense proportions but statements said first tend to stand out subject to conditions like fine print are forgotten as so many politicians practice.

 

[websnail]

Ok, it looks like my recollection is hazy but this is a difficult time due to this surprise of immense proportions but statements said first tend to stand out subject to conditions like fine print are forgotten.

Mike, a complete retraction would be appreciated. You are using double speak to try and imply that I ha ulterior motives in posting when my statement and actions to date make it absolutely clear that I am doing quite the opposite. That is simply not acceptable irrespective of the pressure you are currently under.

To be completely clear so we do not suffer any further "hazyness" I am grateful that you have raised the issue and from a consumer point of view you appear to be doing all the right things to get it resolved. As I was also unaware that such an issue existed I have not completed any testing and because the inks I'm using are developed specifically for the Pro-100 I have raised the issue with the manufacturers to investigate at the same time.


The last I checked this forum was about sharing information, ideas and working together as a community. I will certainly be reporting back on any information that I develop regardless of whether it is positive or not, in exactly the same way that I did when the Yellow peril issue of 2011 raised its ugly head.

That is likely to take some time given the way the symptoms occur but if I may make one very simple suggestion as a work-around for now.

It would appear prudent to consider the purchase and use of third party refillable cartridges designed for the CLI-8 (with a chip swap to use the CLI-42 chip obviously) as they are uncontaminated by any preceding ink and would provide a breathing space in which to isolate issues further.

 

[pharmacist]

My guess about the strange behavior of the dilution is the possibility of some ionic substances used to stabilise the dye into solution. I suspect this particular yellow dye has an optimum iso-electric point where it is completely dissolved. When the ink dries, the ionic strength of these additives increases dramatically causing the dye to fall out of solution and precipitates, as the ink is heavily diluted the same happens on the other end of spectrum and precipitation again will occur (ionic strength too low to maintain optimum iso-electric point).

 

[mikling]

Thanks Pharmacist. that might explain the multiphase reactions that I observed about this ink.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

The top photo is the drying characteristic of PURE Canon CLI-42 Y ink.

The bottom photo is how normal refill ink dries.

That phase change of the Canon ink does look interesting.

...As described, there appears to be two separate issues to this ink...maybe related. One is how it redissolves in the sponge and the dilution factor which occurs at extremely low levels.

So, maybe some solubility tests to see what cleans up the dried ink best.