Important : Canon Pro-100 Cli-42 Yellow Ink

[mikling]

Before releasing my inkset for this, I tested this ink vigorously I was stung by Canon Yellow before so I went into this with my eyes open. It turns out that that was not enough. On further testing, after many months I have discovered that this ink is really complex and all the experiences and knowledge I had gained over the years was not up to the task of taming this monster or understanding it initially. It is still wild and I will describe what I have learned after a few reports of problems (handful) and further non standard testing methods reveals later on. Days of testing and observations brought in more surprises. Even at this point, I am still somewhat confused but have a better grasp and I have a solution for the Pro-100 refilling for the yellow.

Put the Canon CLI-42 yellow ink and all its remnants and get rid of it when you refill. Do not reuse the Canon CLI-42 Yellow cartridge with leftover Canon ink inside. Use a flushed cartridge, any color from a CLI-8 and swap the chip over from the CLI-42Y. This might seem like a sledgehammer solution but after wracking my brains and headaches trying to understand this monster over many weeks, I have to come to this conclusion.

Do not even try to flush the original CLI-42 cartridge unless you are certain you get all of the original ink OUT. and I mean ALL. Flush solutions with the German method will definitely be inadequate.

For the time being, I admit defeat by Canon and the only sure and 100% solution to this monster of yellow ink is to use a refurbed or virgin cartridge of any type. I will make these flushed cartridges available for users of my ink at a special price and henceforth ALL my refill kits will INCLUDE a flushed cartridge ready for refill for the YELLOW. This the best 100% SOLUTION that will be absolutely reliable. The drive for longer ink life by Canon has unleashed a complex ink that does not behave like the traditional ink e.g. CLI-8 generation.

The brighter side to this dark message is that any problems caused by this complex ink is easily fixed with Windex with Ammonia or any Ammonia based glass cleaner and the use of the recommendation as per above.

I wish you all to pass this information on to anyone using a Pro-100, whether they experience problems or not. In the meantime, I am preparing flushed cartridges so users to swap out and these will be available from my site in very soon.

Mikling
Precision Colors

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Hi Mike,

As a Pro-100 User I have had my problems with a refilled OEM yellow cart. In fact it had been refilled approx 3 times before the problem became apparant.

However your post above does not make it clear what evil lurks in the CLI-42Y when refilled with Image Specialists ink.

I did an aggressive purge and rinse of my offending OEM cart, but would like to know of others experience.

Because of my difficulties I purchased an additional OEM cart which currently seems to be working OK - but who knows!

Would really like more specific information

RS

 

[mikling]

I will work on my website tonite, so I have limited time. It is a long story and the amount of work involved was quite high with a lot of detective work that was required.

There are many factors which play into this. Each test reveals information that was not valuable before the issues started.
On standard compatibility tests the mixing of the OEM and refills ink show no problems. Mixed inks sitting in a vial for months showed stability as well. Testing for the ink to redissolve partially dried ink as on a printhead also passed. You also got three refills before it acted up. I pay attention to that because it doesn't sound right. I want to know why/

Only when some users who were started to flush carts in December some problems with blocking of the inlet port occur. I restarted testing again to understand what might be causing this.

Key hurdles in understanding what was going on was overcome.
The first one occurred purely by accident as no standard test would reveal in....The issue of dilution of refill ink with OEM ink and lots of WATER. A low level gelatin web was released slowly over time when it stood. No standard testing revealed this as nobody tests for this.

In December I noticed another factor. That pure Canon ink when it dries, dried in thicker clumps and dried with a network of sorts forming inside. I did not really see the significance of this at that time.

Then Toolman reported that he ran into a blockage problem last week. I went back into testing again but Joe mentioned that there was no water involved. For three days of continuous thinking and trying to piece together the snippets of observations, I kept trying to understand what occurred.
Last night at exactly 11:30 pm I thought I had the answer. Today I was able to reproduce the issue as to why the cartridge/printer has flow problems over time.
I took the vial of mixed ink out and poured into a dish for inspection. Up to last week, I did the same when Joe reported the problem. Today I saw what potentially part of the problem was. I saw small particles of gel inside. Last week it was not there. So how come, what did I do differntly? I did not disturb it when I poured it out. There was dried ink from the sides of the vial that went into the sample. When you mix the sample ink, the thicker particles would dissolve.

So what's going on? is it compatible. From a mix test...yes. It appears so. No funny stuff. But when the Canon ink dries, it sort of separates and this is sort of what happens even by itself. If you have movement, the gel stuff disappears and redissolves. If you add more refill ink in, it disappears as well.

The combination of the two phenomena is what causes the problem as best I can tell.

When you use the cartridge the first time with Canon ink, as it empties, we know the top sponge begins to dry. By the time, you refill, you will have some thicker spots of ink on the upper sponge. The problem is that when it is redissolved by refill ink, these dried concentrations can release like the stuff I got when I poured out the sample. They will work themselves into the inlet port and filter over time. This is similar to what I saw come out the vial. That is one possibility.

The second part to understanding what was going on was to figure out what happens each time you refill. This, I figured out last night ..You get less and less of Canon ink left inside. Now we know that ink contains a lot of water. So eventually the Canon ink reached a point of dilution that is what I discovered when flushing. That some compounds like a deposit of particles ofjello starts to occur. I initially thought that as long as water was kept away this would be OK but I neglected to think of what happens over multiple refills. That the dilution ratio of the Canon ink to water reaches a similar point to the refill ink and you get the compounds coming out. This afternoon I was able to duplicate or prove that theory. The sample ink left what I could clearly see was some kind of deposits, was redissolved with refill ink. Thereafter adding more and more refill ink , just like refilling multiple times started to create a slight web of thicker substance inside. This would create flow problems. Refill ink is principally water. So there appears to be two phases to this problem.

So if you flush and leave Canon ink inside and then add refill ink, you might reach the dilution point where something happens. That is the reason for my warning of flushing and not getting all of it out. Nothing I could see will resolve the drying and separation of the Canon ink issue.

So that is why to very careful about the flushing. Generally, if inks are compatible and water based, like the two inks are, we would tend to generalize that it would be OK to dilute them both and let water flush it out. Not in this case. Nobody ever tests for this condition.
The only way I found out about the instability with dilution is that I had completed a range of tests and could find nothing. Then I was washing the sample dishes out and then got called out to pick up the car from the garage. I had left the mixed ink and water that initially showed nothing wrong and came back to see a web of gel within the liquid. Thereafter I was able to recreate with water etc.

The gel web is easily broken down with windex.

But the safest way to avoid ALL issues with the yellow Canon ink is to get rid of it. Thereafter, we can flush and use water etc. as we had always done with no issues.

Aside from the resetter DIM issue, this is another thing we learn about this printer...The Pro-100. BTW, I also tested with refill ink as used in the Pro9000 with similar results. So it may look compatible with OEM until time and certain physical factors come into play.
Is this a Canon problem? No. They make carts to be used ONCE and then then they are meant to be discarded. They see no point in worrying about how their inks would mix, dry on the sponge and then redissolve. That is our challenge. As of now, the only way I could see to clear the problem with 100% certainty is to use a known clean cartridge free of the Canon OEM yellow ink. The sledgehammer solution..one hit one time and it nails the problem down with a solution. Brute force but it works.

So the best way is keep yellow OEM ink away from refilling. I tested the other 7 colors with water and have seen no issues at this time.

 

[Methodical]

I just topped off my yellow a couple days ago. What should I expect now or watch out for?

Thanks...Al

 

[mikling]

I just topped off my yellow a couple days ago. What should I expect now or watch out for?

Thanks...Al

Initially as Roy experienced nothing unusual but after a few refills it started having flow issues and a blocked inlet port. Now I have hundreds of users and only heard about this issue from 4 including Joe and now 5 that Roy has responded. It remains hidden and the problem is as quickly described by me above ( the mystery and work that went into it is longer) . Now that I have uncovered that there is an issue lurking, I am going out to prevent users from experiencing this issue. As described it taxed my thinking to the utmost to uncover what was going on and when there is an issue I report it when I have found out what it is and how to go about fixing and more important preventing it.

Get the refurbished cartridge and get rid of the Canon CLI-42Y but keep the chip, when it comes time to refill. Don't wait for the problem of blocked flow to strike.

http://www.precisioncolors.com/PC42cart.html



I apologize but the issue that causes this is so unusual, I never saw it coming. At least we know and can prevent it now.

If the above link does not show a refurbed cart for $3, check in again. My webserver has got my updates on a cache that I never authorized. they switched if off now but the update might be caught in the cache.

It's been a long weekend of digging and trying to solve this puzzle. Tomorrow I have to start an email campaign of informing.

 

[mikling]

All the kits also have cartridges included for problem free switchovers as well.
The cartridges will require that the chip be removed. I recommend taking the chip off the CLI-42 first to get an idea of how it is done. Then the chip on the Refurbed cart can be removed and the 42 chip dropped into place. If done well, it actually stays in by itself and for added security heat the tip of a screwdriver up and flatten the stem to hold the chip in more securely.

http://www.precisioncolors.com/PC42cref.html

 

[PeterBJ]

For chip transfer see this post by The Hat: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/canon-chip-removal-made-easy.5629/

 

[Methodical]

Mikling, just to be clear, the refurb yellow cart can be used and refilled multiple times without any future issues correct?

Thanks...Al

 

[mikling]

It will behave as a normal cartridge. Eventually it will need to be flushed again like normal cartridges but, it does not have to be flushed perfectly clear at that point and the knowledge we have all gained about what can be done will hold.

The OEM CLI-42 yellow ink is problematic. Looks like even Hat ran into it and he did not use it on a Pro-100 and he was not using my PC42-Y ink. So the issue appears more universal and not specific to my PC42-Y ink.

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/here-is-an-up–date-on-the-yellow-cli-42.8500/

It lurks there as a silent problem and believe me, you would not normally see what the problem is. I discovered what caused it purely as a stroke of "luck". When I went hunting to see what the problem was I could not find it.

 

[mikling]

If you're affected. First thing, don't even bother to flush the yellow cartridge...the ONLY worry free solution is to use a CLI-8 cartridge that has been previously flushed of ink and did not have any CLI-42 yellow ink.

To clear the printhead, use windex with ammonia or any ammonia based window cleaner and gently hit the top of the inlet area with the solution. This will dissolve the deposits and turn it back into liquid. The other solution is to use prefiltered cascade dishwasher and then do the same thing. The cascade solution will clear it in a flash. I recommend using the windex because Cascade with water is not easy on the hands and must be filtered.

If you wish to test, go ahead. I spent numerous numerous hours and knowing what I thought I was looking for, could not find it. This was over several weeks.

Just do the right thing, get the refurbed cart and transfer the chip, refill the refurbed cart and TOSS the CLI-42 Y cartridge in the garbage. It's not worth $3 to take on the task of flushing the CLI-42Y and crossing your fingers. The $3 is a pittance for the comfort of mind and will only be available to purchasers of my inks, present and past.

The PC42-Y ink is made by IS and sold to normal refillers under another number. It is more widely used than the yellow ink in the Pro-9000 and on other CLI-8 Y and has been used for over ten years by millions of users. So this PC42-Y is not a new ink. I selected it to because it met the physical requirements of the printhead and its color more closely matched the color of the CLI-42 Y than what was used on the Pro9000. The ink used on the Pro9000 has identical issues as seen on the PC42-Y. So there appears no easy solution to this or else I would have taken that route.