HP printers :: any recommendations

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Cannot believe I'm even posting this but hey, I try to keep an open mind.

I've decided to see if there's any good HP inkjet printers using the newer separate printhead from ink reservoir/cartridge system (eg: K550).

Ultimately I'm intending to look at how the printer works as a possible CIS adapted unit but right now I'd just like to get some feel for how good the actual printers are and what sort of reliability, usability they have.

The K550 officejet was looking quite good on paper until I started checking reviews from end users and discovered that the overriding benefit (ie: an extensible paper capacity via an add on tray) was pretty much wiped out by problems with the paper feed reported by multiple users, some with multiple units.

Anyways, if you can shed any light, opinions and reviews on a few models, that'd be much appreciated.

Cheers folks

Martin

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

The K550 was preceded by the 1100d/dt/dtn and the 1200d/dt/dtn/dtw (Duplex, Tray 2, Networking, and Wireless). Both of these use the #10 black and the #11 color tanks with individual printheads (the K550 has two colors in each printhead, but the printheads are rated for far more prints. #11 printheads, about 16,500, #88 printheads, about 45,000). I have an 1100d that I got on clearance at Staples for $75. I also bought the extended warranty. The shelf model broke after about a year (the feed rollers kept shredding paper), but they replaced it under the warranty and it's working perfectly now. The original carts had been used up all the way from being a demo, so buying the first set of replacements was rather expensive ($35 each, on average). I just bought a set of blank carts with auto-reset chips and 3 refills worth of ink (full kit) from MIS for $81. I haven't used it yet as the black still has 15% ink and the color tanks are all still over 50% after a year of moderate to heavy use (no large runs, but there's three people printing e-mail/documents/smaller quantities of brochures, etc). I would suggest finding an 1100d or 1200d (with extra features if you need them) on eBay or clearance tech sites if you'd like to get a printer with the separate printheads.

1100d:

Pros: Cheap ink usage. Even using OEMs, it's easily the cheapest type of inkjet. Very sharp black text printing. Huge paper tray (I only have the one-tray model) so you don't have to keep putting paper in it. Tray 1 is 150 sheets, Tray 2 is 250. If I had room I'd buy a Tray 2 add-on because I keep taking the paper out to run labels and transparencies and forgetting to put it back in.

Cons: The OEM ink doesn't seem to work well with HP photo papers. It never 'dries' all the way and will stick to sheet protectors, etc. I'm hoping the MIS inks will work better since they're 'Vivera Compatible'. Right now I use Office Depot photo paper with it, which works fine. You /have/ to fan the paper before putting it in or it will double-feed sheets. Best to only put one sheet at a time in if you're using photo paper. Useless as a photo printer (it's not /meant/ to be one, so this isn't really a con) due to the mixed pigment/dye inks, so the dark areas of your pictures will come out funny. It's still more than good enough for photos on brochures and flyers. Biggest con, in my book, is the bottom margin is .55 inches. If you are printing a tri-fold brochure, this means you have to print two panels (the top margin is .12") and then the third one if you want to use a quarter inch margin. (i.e. put the paper in the printer four times). I /almost/ sold this printer to get an Epson with a CIS, but I like it too much and I'm willing to put up with the margins. I don't like Epson because of the hassles they've given me with warranty service.

K550:

Pros: Cheap (but not as cheap as the older ones) ink usage. Same with the huge paper tray. Uses 'Vivera' inks that are hopefully better with HP Photo papers. The margins (finally!) can be expanded to .12" on all four sides, but you have to go into the settings and 'Minimize Margins' or the driver still defaults to the .55" of the older ones. The printheads are rated for longer life than the 1100 series.

Cons: The ink cartridges are smaller by about 10 ml! (#10 black: 69 ml, #88 black, 59 ml. #11 color: 28 ml. #88 color: 18 ml). The Large Size cartridges are not often available in retail stores - you have to mail order them. The ones most stores carry are the same size as the starter carts (18/9/9/9ml). So far MIS doesn't have refillables for this one - I've seen a CIS for it, but this is overkill, even with the smaller cartridges you don't need a CIS. They've told me they're working on getting them. You can still refill them yourself, you just won't have an ink monitor. The add ons MUST be bought /with/ the printer, they are separate models. You cannot buy the paper tray afterwards. The paper feed problems seem to have increased, but I still think this is more due to people not understanding that you really need to fan the paper.

If you have any other questions about the 1100d, just ask and I'll reply. I don't know too much about the K550 other than the differences between it and the 1100d when I was thinking about replacing it. When the 1100d printheads finally wear out I'll probably go to a K550, maybe newer gen models will fix the paper feed problems.

 

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The K550 was preceded by the 1100d/dt/dtn and the 1200d/dt/dtn/dtw (Duplex, Tray 2, Networking, and Wireless). Both of these use the #10 black and the #11 color tanks with individual printheads (the K550 has two colors in each printhead, but the printheads are rated for far more prints. #11 printheads, about 16,500, #88 printheads, about 45,000).

I did wonder which printer(s) came before the K550 so that's useful info.. The printhead life info does make me lean a little towards the K550 too..

I would suggest finding an 1100d or 1200d (with extra features if you need them) on eBay or clearance tech sites if you'd like to get a printer with the separate printheads.

Gotcha... worth checking out

1100d/1200d

Biggest con, in my book, is the bottom margin is .55 inches. If you are printing a tri-fold brochure, this means you have to print two panels (the top margin is .12") and then the third one if you want to use a quarter inch margin. (i.e. put the paper in the printer four times). I /almost/ sold this printer to get an Epson with a CIS, but I like it too much and I'm willing to put up with the margins. I don't like Epson because of the hassles they've given me with warranty service.

Hmmm.. yeah I guess that makes sense.. the margin isn't going to be a massive issue given the intended usage my end but worth knowing about.

K550:

Cons: The ink cartridges are smaller by about 10 ml! (#10 black: 69 ml, #88 black, 59 ml. #11 color: 28 ml. #88 color: 18 ml). The Large Size cartridges are not often available in retail stores - you have to mail order them. The ones most stores carry are the same size as the starter carts (18/9/9/9ml). So far MIS doesn't have refillables for this one - I've seen a CIS for it, but this is overkill, even with the smaller cartridges you don't need a CIS. They've told me they're working on getting them. You can still refill them yourself, you just won't have an ink monitor. The add ons MUST be bought /with/ the printer, they are separate models. You cannot buy the paper tray afterwards. The paper feed problems seem to have increased, but I still think this is more due to people not understanding that you really need to fan the paper.

Hmm... yeah I guess this is true.. In fairness and just to give a little more background.. Ultimately my intention is to find good printers that can essentially be setup to use by low tech primary schools. In part I'd be providing support, replacement and pretty much removing the problems inherent with printers so a CIS that just takes care of all the ink costs is a real plus.

The page fanning issue could be the downfall here as teachers tend to hear but don't listen when you tell them this stuff.. It could be offset in terms of the sheer usefulness of the massive paper trays though as the Epsons and Canon printers with their 150 sheets are always running out and just being left.

If you have any other questions about the 1100d, just ask and I'll reply. I don't know too much about the K550 other than the differences between it and the 1100d when I was thinking about replacing it. When the 1100d printheads finally wear out I'll probably go to a K550, maybe newer gen models will fix the paper feed problems.

Fair enough... sounds like I need to play a little.. I am curious about how the cartridges and the actual printheads dovetail as it goes, I've noticed that pictures of CIS's for the K550 seem to indicate that the cartridges don't actually move with the printhead at all which would be a massive improvement in terms of potential problems for a CIS. Can you confirm this?

I'm also curious about the autoduplexer units on both printers.. The K550 had one reviewer slating it but then I suspect it may have been a knock on from the feed issue and the lack of paper fanning.. be useful to confirm that they work without problems though.

Other than that, thanks for the input.. it's given me a lot to think about and certainly I'm debating popping one or both of these units on my ebay second hand want list for the future..

Cheers for that

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Fair enough... sounds like I need to play a little.. I am curious about how the cartridges and the actual printheads dovetail as it goes, I've noticed that pictures of CIS's for the K550 seem to indicate that the cartridges don't actually move with the printhead at all which would be a massive improvement in terms of potential problems for a CIS. Can you confirm this?

I'm also curious about the autoduplexer units on both printers.. The K550 had one reviewer slating it but then I suspect it may have been a knock on from the feed issue and the lack of paper fanning.. be useful to confirm that they work without problems though.

Other than that, thanks for the input.. it's given me a lot to think about and certainly I'm debating popping one or both of these units on my ebay second hand want list for the future..

Cheers for that

Yes, this is one of the good things that the cartridges on all of these printers stay still, and there's ribbon tubing similar most CIS systems have that's built into the printer (between printhead and carts). My 1100d vibrates a lot when in use though, the printhead motor is pretty powerful. I almost never use the duplexer, since it makes the margins even smaller, but I've never had a problem with it. Takes quite awhile though, so it might be faster just to flip the paper.

 

[Pistos]

My experience with the K550 is thus:

Excellent office/general use printer. On forms, brochures, newsletters, etc. it is fully twice as fast as my Canon ip4000 (achieved because text and graphics at normal setting on HP = high quality setting on Canon). Very 'violent' compared to my Canon - where sometimes I have to check twice to see if my ip4000 is even printing because it's so quiet, there is no doubt when the HP is in action; I can hear it in the next room and watch the desk that it's sitting on shake!

On photos it does a nice job but is actually slower than my Canon.

The ink levels dropped quicker than I would have expected - mind you they were the smaller starter cartridges but still...I had planned to replace them with large capacity but when I changed my first one (cyan) I immediately ran into what I thought was a defective cartridge with 'blobs' of cyan randomly appearing on the output. After several unsuccessful cleanings I changed to another cartridge which proceeded to do the same thing. I have yet to resolve this problem. btw - cleaning cycles take a long time and the noises it makes give the impression that it's sprouted little legs and is scurrying across the room in a break for freedom

The drivers seem awkward...and intrusive. Much of the functionality is disabled unless you agree that the printer driver can freely send whatever information it pleases across your internet connection to HP. I dislike this 'feature'.

Overall, if it decides to work again, it will probably be a nice little office printer. If I had to sum it up in one sentence it would be, "The HP K550 is a color inkjet printer that thinks it's a laser."

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

My experience with the K550 is thus:

Excellent office/general use printer. On forms, brochures, newsletters, etc. it is fully twice as fast as my Canon ip4000 (achieved because text and graphics at normal setting on HP = high quality setting on Canon). Very 'violent' compared to my Canon - where sometimes I have to check twice to see if my ip4000 is even printing because it's so quiet, there is no doubt when the HP is in action; I can hear it in the next room and watch the desk that it's sitting on shake!

So it's still got the powerful motor that the 1100 series has. I think if you put mine on a rolling computer cart, it would roll away. It also makes disturbing noises on start-up, both the original and warranty replacement, so it must be 'normal'.

On photos it does a nice job but is actually slower than my Canon.

The ink levels dropped quicker than I would have expected - mind you they were the smaller starter cartridges but still...I had planned to replace them with large capacity but when I changed my first one (cyan) I immediately ran into what I thought was a defective cartridge with 'blobs' of cyan randomly appearing on the output. After several unsuccessful cleanings I changed to another cartridge which proceeded to do the same thing. I have yet to resolve this problem. btw - cleaning cycles take a long time and the noises it makes give the impression that it's sprouted little legs and is scurrying across the room in a break for freedom

Sounds to me like the 'bad' cartridge may have damaged your print head...or at least clogged it up. Try printing a half (or full) page of cyan rather than doing the cleaning cycle.

The drivers seem awkward...and intrusive. Much of the functionality is disabled unless you agree that the printer driver can freely send whatever information it pleases across your internet connection to HP. I dislike this 'feature'.

What functions are disabled? On my 1100d the only thing that doesn't 'work' is the MyPrintMileage 'feature' which 'reminds you to buy ink' when necessary (I imagine this feature is far more useful in an office where the employees think ink comes from the Ink Fairy). I was a tad irritated that I started getting low ink warnings when the black tank was 25% full. I was able to disable that, but I still get the system tray icon with the blinking ! I guess when I get to using the auto-reset cartridges I'll have to reset them (power on/off, I think) at 30%. Speaking of which, I asked this before, but since this thread is talking about the specific series of printers again: has anyone used MIS' transparent refillable cartridges with auto-reset chips in their 1100d/1200d? The original carts have a very complex system of pumps and check valves, while the refillable ones seem to have an air pressure balance system.

Overall, if it decides to work again, it will probably be a nice little office printer. If I had to sum it up in one sentence it would be, "The HP K550 is a color inkjet printer that thinks it's a laser."

Better than a laser, really. The only issue I think is the prints are not as water resistant on standard paper (i.e. if you leave newsletters around town and someone picks it up after putting down their iced coffee it may smudge, but the pigment black is pretty resistant). Better photos, just as good text, and it's cheaper to run than most of HP's color lasers under $700.

HP 2600n Color Laser: Horribly slow (8ppm in /draft/ mode), Black carts run about $80 and are rated for 2,500 prints.

HP K550 Color Inkjet: 33 ppm in draft mode, black ink carts run about $35/2350 prints,

Buy a refill kit or CIS and you're down to less than 10 cents per color copy.

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

One more con to the 1100d, though I had this problem with my old Canon BJC-4300 and haven't tested it on my Epson R340 yet. If you design something with a lot of white space, the printer will screw up the dimensions of the image.

I just designed a newsletter in Illustrator 9, with a 1" header and 1" footer with color on the front page. I then made blank templates for the next three pages. Printing the front page, then the blank template on the back (which is the exact same height, except the header is .25" and the bottom border is only 1 point thick) and holding it up to the light, the second page is nearly 1/4" smaller than the front page. Exporting it as a TIFF to Photoshop 6 wound up with the same error. I know Photoshop and Illustrator aren't page layout programs but it should not be doing this. Using Paint Shop Pro 5.0 Beta (which has a better print layout function than Photoshop 6.0) did the same thing.

The solution: Two vertical 1 point lines on the extreme edges of the print margins that are extremely light grey (RGB 250/250/250). The printer actually tries to print them, and thus measures the distance better. Once the newsletter is done this won't slow down the printing, as it will have to print the full sheet of text anyway. I may not even need to leave the lines in after the text and ads are filled in. I do not know if this is a common fault on inkjets. I had the exact same error with the old Canon printer, where if I tried to print business cards on pre-scored stock, it would lose about .1" per card, thus after the first two rows of cards, it would be severely out of alignment.

 

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Well.. good or bad, I've noticed that the prices for the K550 are dropping like mad now in the UK..

Prices there were at 120+ have gone to 90+ in the past 2 days.. Looks like the retailers are getting a lot of returns..

I also chatted to a client school contact today about the pro's and con's of the K550 and whilst they liked the idea of a massive paper supply they immediately balked when I mentioned that paper would need to be fanned. As he put it, teachers can be told but they just won't remember to do it.. They just want it to work.. which pretty much sums it up...

Either way, I'm probably going to try for a second hand one of these and see how well it works. Along the way if it seems worth it I'll see if there's any modifications I can make that might resolve the problem..

Thanks for the all the input though folks... much appreciated.. and interesting to see that HP has created a semi-CIS integrated system.

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

I did some more research and found out they /do/ make refillable cartridges for the K550 (88 Large) but not many companies carry them yet. The ones I've seen on eBay are part of a CIS and not on their own (I did find one set, but it was $99. MIS 10/11 4-color sets are $81 for the auto reset carts, 4 oz of each color ink, and the syringes) I hope MIS gets these before I wind up buying a K550.

I'm not /entirely/ sure how well these carts will work in the K550 because the cartridges are nearly horizontal, as compared to the vertical carts for the 1100.

HP has had these 'CIS-style' printers for quite awhile (there are models that preceed the 1100d, which is about 2 1/2 years old now). Apparently they also make a 6-color photo one as well, I don't know the numbers for it. I'd love to find one if I had the extra cash for it.

Oh, and just print a sticker on fluorescent paper: PLEASE FAN PAPER BEFORE REFILLING PRINT TRAY right on the end of the print tray so they /have/ to see it while they're putting the paper in. That way, even if they forget, all they have to do is look at it to remember why it's messing up.

 

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Well, here I am with my brand spanking new K550 and already I have a few notes on its design and the percieved problems reported on other forums, reviews, etc..

First off the joys of the printer when it does get initialized.. It takes FOREVER and heaven forbid you get a power cut in the midst of this 12 minute process.. so far that power cut didn't do anything lasting but it was a scare.. The question begs itself as to what on earth it's doing in all this time but still..

Next up we have the paper tray.. Now I could be wrong here but my initial impression of this thing is that someone could have designed it a little better.. The guide for the paper size is pretty flimsy at the end closest to you and it's the only thing that's available to line your paper against.. Granted there's a bigger guide on the left that's adjustable and that helps marginally but with you have 250 sheets of paper to manhandle into this thing you need something more substantial.

Printing times..
Erm.. well if you want something like a status page it can handle it straight away but I've sat here now having asked it to print a 2 page black and white text doc and it took quite a while to get around to it.. So much so that the computer requesting it decided it had failed before it actually printed.. Weird.
EDIT: Actually that turned out to be unfair.. I just pit it against my MP500 and found that the problem was warm-up. Once it gets past that this printer FLIES!..

Firmware upgrades are always a little worrying but that seemed to be a painless process (thank deity there were no more power cuts in the middle of that!) but after it completed that there's yet more grinding and humming from the printer.

Paper fanning?
It's early days so far but this is not made at all easy by the poor paper tray design noted earlier. I may have to opt for some carefully carved foam to act as a proper buffer to make it easier but I'm starting to understand why there were so many complaints about this printer. Anyway, fanned or not the printer seems to work ok.

Ink Usage?
Well I have to take my hat off to HP in some ways they at least offer you with a reasonable status printout but it's a bit of a pain that you have to actually print it off .. Still.. this is something more useful than the random error code you get on the MP500. The priming routine seems to have used up a fair amount of ink but then that's to be expected I guess especially when you consider that there's a tube to fill too as this is basically a production model CIS built in.


All in all it's early days but right now there's not much to recommend this to me over an iP4200 with a decently setup CIS.