German method

[mrelmo]

ok the thread was getting a little long, just in case i did not read this comment in past threads, here is an observation while using this method. most recently while refilling the yellow (this is the easiest to see) i noticed that i was forcing ink into the sponge area. i realized that i left the OEM cover on the exit port on the bottom while injecting (i have a spare set or carts, when i swap out an empty i tape the oem cover into place). once i removed the cover the air in the chamber had a place to escape and i was no longer forcing ink into the sponge area. if this comment is redundant the moderator can delete it. just an observation

 

[pharmacist]

mrelmo,

Look at my pictures. As you can see, no OEM covers whatsoever to close the exit port. The trick is to inject the ink into the compartment and keep the decreasing air bubble as long as possible near the small hole connecting the ink and the sponge compartment. In fact you must replace the air in the empty ink compartment with ink, without letting the ink to directly be injected into the sponge: the ink must penetrate the sponge by capillary and gravitation forces only. This is the reason you must hold the exit port upwards when refilling with the german Durchstich method.

 

[nche11]

There are pros and cons for the German method. Obviously one of the pros is it does not need to hole to be drilled and sealed. Poor sealing can create a lot of problems. But one of the cons can be seen from this thread. WHen you inject ink into the reservoir tank it expels air out and the air has to go through the sponge to reach the vent or the exit hole. SInce there is still ink in the sponge the air will push the ink out of the vent or the exit hole along with it. You have to inject ink very slowly.

I just refilled a set of OEM carts for my ip4300. It took me only 10 minutes, that's 2 minutes per cartridge. I followed the refill instruction came with the Hobbicolors refill kit. I used the small plugs from Hobbicolors. These plugs are so soft and I can plug and unplug in a snap. I can see ink absorbed by the sponge until the sponge is about 2/3 saturated then I covered the vent with my thumb on the top of the cartridge. I can fill the reservoir tank to 95% only to leave a tiny air pocket in there then plug in the plug in just one second. The time it took was less than 2 minutes. When I plugged in all the refill carts back to the printer it did not need a cleaning cycle. THe printer did one automatically and that's all it needed. The printer is printing fabulously. I saw no ink dripping out of the exit port from all the cartridges. Not a problem at all as long as I see ink being absorbed quickly from the reservoir tank before I put a stop to it by covering the vent by my thumb of my left hand there will be no ink flow issues.

The German method is based on a good idea. But it is not really an easier method to me. BTW, before I refilled all the carts my Yellow and Cyan were totally empty. The PGI-5 was bone dry as well. The printer does not tell you any more that you are running out of ink.

 

[stratman]

It seems there are some misperceptions concerning the German method of refilling.

The process involves turing the cartridge upside down so that the ink exit port is facing towards the ceiling/sky. Then you fill ONLY the spongeless side with ink. Next, turn the cartridge rightside up, with the ink exit port facing towads the floor/ground as it would be in your printer, and leave in this position for approximately one minute to allow gravity and osmosis to draw ink from the spongeless side into the sponge. Then you turn the cartridge upside down again, fill the spongeless side to near full, leaving a bubble to prevent overfilling and dripping when you turn it right side down again.

At no time should you be forcing ink from the spongeless side while injecting new ink. There is no passive transfer of ink until you turn it rightside down. Also, air inside the cartridge that must escape when ink is introduced can vent wither from the ink exit port, the cartridges topside vent and/or the ink injection hole. Obviously one should inject at a slower rate but it should olny take a few seconds (10-12 sec) to fill the spongeless side initially and even less time when topping off in the second injection.

The German method also decreases the worry of foam of air bubbles in the sponged side that can cause problems of ink flow while printing. The German method also requires no sealing of the hole, though it may be a consideration if you are going to store the cartridge for a much later use, instead of in the immediate future.

The only downsides to the German method that I have heard of are

1) Someone in this forum reported yellow particulate/solid/crud matter crusting aroung the ink injection hole of their Yellow cartridge. Only one person I believe has reported this, so one should wonder if the ink used was responsible or a contamination unrelated to the German method was involved. It also might be related to the size of the hole they drilled/tapped. More data would be nice before saying is is the German method at fault.

2) It may be prudent in longer term storage of filled cartridges to seal the ink injection hole to prevent evaporation and/or introduction of contaimenants.

3) Location of the ink injection hole complicates purging. A potential workaround in which you fill the spongeless side with water (de-ionized?) before purging will help prevent ink from getting trapped in the spongeless side, requiring more time and effort. An obvious solution is to drill/tap a hole on the top of the cartridge, just like one used to fill the cartridge in the conventional method.

So if you drill a hole on the top of the cartridge for purging then why use the German method at all? Because it is as fast or faster, zero or much less mess, easier, less prone to complications or in-printer ink leaks, and avoids printing problems from foam/bubbles in the sponge. (If bubbles/foam occur in the spongeless side it does NOT negatively affect printing in my experience.)

I would love to see someone incorporate the rubbery stopper material found in medicine vials into the top of the cartridge (spongeless side). This material can be pierced with a needle, self seal and be air/fluid proof. Then it might be possible to refill the cartridge while still in the printer and no need to fumble with screws, tape or hot wax.

Finally, the bottom line is whatever works for you is best. If it works then it's all good!

 

[nche11]

"It seems there are some misperceptions concerning the German method of refilling."

"At no time should you be forcing ink from the spongeless side while injecting new ink. There is no passive transfer of ink until you turn it rightside down."

"Obviously one should inject at a slower rate but it should olny take a few seconds (10-12 sec) to fill the spongeless side initially"

Maybe I did not make it clear enough. When you inject ink into the spongeless tank the amount of air expelled will be equal to the volume of ink injected into the tank. The tank has only one entrance/exit, which is where you inject ink into the tank. The expelled air has to evacuate because of pressure build up. It has to go through the sponge until it finds the vent or the exit hole at the bottom. Because there is still ink in the sponge the evacuated air will take some ink with it to vent out of the vent/exit port. That's an ink spill hard to deal with.

For filling a new virgin cartridge this is not a problem. There is no ink in the sponge to begin with. But when refilling it the next time it will be a problem. You have to do it very slowly or you get ink spill all over. I sure can not fill ink in 10 - 12 seconds. If I fill from the top through the drilled hole I can fill ink in 2 seconds.

Sealing is not a problem actually. Overfilling is what happens the most to unexperienced people. Unless they are told very specifically to not overfill they would fill ink just as much as they could and be rewarded with all kinds of problems later.

You still can not fill ink when the cartridge is still in the printer, if you use one rubber stopper only. You have to have a second rubber stopper pierced by a needle without a syringe to create a pass for air to escape while you inject ink through the other. But I think at the moment this air escape pass is opened ink will begin to leak into the print head. Some practice may solve the problem but you really have to do it very fast.

 

[stratman]

Maybe I did not make it clear enough. When you inject ink into the spongeless tank the amount of air expelled will be equal to the volume of ink injected into the tank. The tank has only one entrance/exit, which is where you inject ink into the tank. The expelled air has to evacuate because of pressure build up. It has to go through the sponge until it finds the vent or the exit hole at the bottom. Because there is still ink in the sponge the evacuated air will take some ink with it to vent out of the vent/exit port. That's an ink spill hard to deal with.

I did say there are three ways for air to be expelled while injecting ink with the Durchstich method. It works and if done correctly, which is extremely easy, there will be ZERO ink spills or drips. You are either not refilling via the Durchstich method or are doing it incorrectly. Defcon2000 has a video of him refilling 5 cartridges in 7:06 and with what appears to be zero spills/drops/mess. Others have replicated his "feat" on numerous occasions once they learn not to fill the cartridge to the top with ink (which will then drip out until pressure is equalized between air and fluid ink). You may need to dab clean any ink around the ink injection hole and/or the ink exit port but it shouldn't be dripping or draining as if you refilled via the older conventional topside hole and left the ink exit port uncovered. This clean-up may be necessary with the conventional refilling method as well, so it's a zero-sum point.

For filling a new virgin cartridge this is not a problem. There is no ink in the sponge to begin with. But when refilling it the next time it will be a problem. You have to do it very slowly or you get ink spill all over. I sure can not fill ink in 10 - 12 seconds. If I fill from the top through the drilled hole I can fill ink in 2 seconds.

Refilling times are reliant on amount injected, needle guage, experience, etc. Saving an additional 8-10 seconds during injection is less important to me than potentially less risk of a mess and less risk of printing problems like from an incompletely sealed ink injection hole. If it works for you, great. This isn't a contest to see who can pee further. We're all winners if we're satisfied.

Sealing is not a problem actually. Overfilling is what happens the most to unexperienced people. Unless they are told very specifically to not overfill they would fill ink just as much as they could and be rewarded with all kinds of problems later.

Sealing is not an issue at all with the Durchstich method except for the situation I mentioned. Overfilling is self-correcting if you follow the instructions for the Durchstich method, ie turn the cartridge rightside up with the ink injection port facing downward and let it drip until it stops or suck out a little ink with your syringe if your impatient.

Personally, the first time I tried the Durchstich method I overfilled the first cartridge even though I knew explicitly not to do that. I went against the instructions and vast majority of people's experience because ONE guy posted in the forum that he filled the cartridge all the way up without problems. I don't know how he managed that in retrospect because my overfilled cartridge dripped for a minute or so before stopping but then worked perfectly without muss or fuss thereafter. Moral of the story, there is no replacement for experience even if you're told how to do it correctly. Other moral was I was an idiot to go against the volume of data and experience on this forum. DOH!

BTW, the subsequent cartridge refills went smoothly without drips because I learned/knew to not fill completely.

You still can not fill ink when the cartridge is still in the printer, if you use one rubber stopper only. You have to have a second rubber stopper pierced by a needle without a syringe to create a pass for air to escape while you inject ink through the other. But I think at the moment this air escape pass is opened ink will begin to leak into the print head. Some practice may solve the problem but you really have to do it very fast.

You are probably correct about the addition of only a rubber stopper for injecting as being insufficient for in-printer refilling. Ink would most likely be forced out the ink exit port under positive pressure created while injecting. That would be a mess.

 

[nche11]

"I did say there are three ways for air to be expelled while injecting ink with the Durchstich method. "

And in each of the three ways air has to escape through the sponge. If there is ink in the sponge it takes the ink with it to escape from the cartridge. This is particularly true in refilling a cartridge that is only half empty. I can refill a new empty virgin cart in less than 1 minute. But I have to slow down a bit if I need to keep ink spill under control. Despite this I agree that the German method is an excellent innovative method. But I also found that the more conventional method is not bad at all if you use a proper soft plug and use your thumb to control the vent like an air valve to keep the sponge from being overfilled the entire refilling process can be done well within one minute. But whether it takes one or two minutes it's really not a bif deal. Yes, whichever method works best for you go for that method.

BTW, I just did a EEPROM dump from the print head. It showed that I have printed a total paper count of 3200 sheets. That's 3000 plain paper prints I have printed and 200 photos so far. I don't remember how many times I have refilled my cartridges. One thing very clear to me is I have never purged my CLI8 carts. The refilling method has nothing to do with this. It is the ink I believe is the main reason I never needed purge. 3000 sheets is not too many but it is 6 realms of paper. The printer is about 2 years old. In case anyone who still has doubt about the success of refilling, I think I can say go ahead and give it a try.

 

[stratman]

I don't have the problems you seemed to have had. When I do the second stage injection to "top off" the cartridge, I am pushing in fluid and displacing air as you describe. But, I do not have the dripping or mess you infer. My reading on people's experiences seem to be more aligned with my experience of zero or minimal ink loss.

I use InkMon5 to monitor ink usage. I refill when there is no ink left in the spongeless side and ink some but not every drop has also been used from the sponge side, ie I refill 9-11 ml ink for a CLI-8 cartridge. Have not run dry... yet! (knock on wood) I know some will refill all cartridges simulateously when there are varying amounts of ink per cartridge. I have a second set of cartridges ready to use so I can immediately swap out an "empty" and put in a "new" one without leaving the printhead open to air for more than a few seconds. I then refill the "empty" at my leisure. I have purged one set of cartridges but not the other set. Will see how they last. Purging rates are variable but from my cursory reading it seems like PGI-5 pigmented cartridges conservatively every 5-6 refills and less frequently, maybe every 10 refills for CLI-8 dye-based cartridges. The key to knowing when to purge is to do it when print quality begins to suffer if the usual methods of cleaning/purging via the printer software does not clear the issue. Also, it may be prudent to purge a cartridge that has sat around and the ink in the sponge has dried. Visible fungus would be a good reason too. A pre-emptive purge every X number of refills probably wouldn't hurt - kind of like preventative auto mantainence to prevent problems in the first place. If anyone can clarify the issue better, please jump in since I have not suffered poor print quality or visible particulate matter in the cartridge yet. (knock on wood again!)

Why your experience with the Durchstich method was substantially different I can not answer. The important point is that you have a method that works for you and you enjoy doing it that way. I have mine and am quite satisfied. Viva la difference!

According to Canon, an IP4200 has a print volume of 18,000 pages (includes text and photos) for the life of the printer/printhead, for which they estimate up to 5 years overall:

Black 1,500 character pattern 8,300 pages

Color A4, 7.5% duty per color pattern 5,400 pages

A4, photo, borderless printing 400 pages

4 x 6, photo, borderless printing 3,200 pages

Postcard, photo, borderless printing 700 pages

Your mileage will vary to be sure. ;-)

 

[NM]

Hmmm.... Now where DO the air go when filling the ink?
Never filled a Canon catridge, yet - but have resently bought a MP600 and a MP610 - so I'm very interested in a reliable method of refilling the cartridges.

I think Ill go for the Durchstich method, as I've had lots of problems sealing the cartridges in my old Epson printer.

The preferrede way og transporting ink through the sponge of any cartridge would definitly be via the capilary action. ANY pressure will potentially lead to air being capturede, an thus disrupting the flow of ink.

Anyway. I hope that when filing the cartridges using the Durchstich method, the air will use the same path going out as it did going in(!) - being the space between the sponges and the 'wall' separating the two chambers - and NOT through the sponge!

In terms of problems with dripping use the Durchstich metod, the answer would be air pressure from within the cartridge, either from the remaining air in the spongeless chamber, or from the ain in the chamber with the sponge (the airvent will have to be blocked in the latter case).
Overfillling may allso be the reason - but may not be apperent: If ink is force into and around the upper part of the sponge, the ink may be causing an increased pressure.