Epson WF-7710 CISS or Refillable Catridges

eppyson

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I just bought an Epson WF-7710 and will be asking for advice on this forum about adding a CISS or refillable cartridges. For years, I used my old WF-7510 to print about a half dozen 13x19 color prints per day. Love that printer, but it finally started giving me troubles I couldn't overcome. So, now the WF-7710. If anyone has any off-the-top-of-my-head advice regarding CISS with the 7710, it is welcome. But I'll have specific questions after I read more existing posts. BTW--I used only OEM Epson cartridges with my old 7510, but I really need to cut costs, and am determined to find a good CISS for this new printer. As all of us Epson lovers know, they suck down the ink like mad.
 

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all those CISS and refill cartridges are coming from the FarEast, and I think there are only a very few actual manufacturers but lots of different sellers via allt ypical sales channels - Amazon, Ebay, Aliexpress etc.
I would recommend to get a CISS from a local supplier which does refill inks and refill accessories , a supplier you can contct in case of problems. It's typicalls not so much the CISS hardware causing problems but the installation and operation, lots of such CISS just come with a pretty short installation instruction, some even only in Chinese, you need to prime the cartridges before you start printing, and the routing and mounting of the tubing is critical, you get some
parts and brackets for it which are tpyically mounted with sticky glue tabs but it is my experience that they may not hold for very long under regular operation, or they slowly bend sideways and get into the print path colliding with the printhead. So you may contact a few ink/CISS suppliers and ask them whether they have actually installed such a CISS themselves or could give you support , I remember a supplier in Germany even offering an installation service - come to us with your printer and we get it working together (at a charge ) , so it all depends.
Thanks, Ink Stained Fingers. This is exactly the type of insight I was hoping this forum could provide. Yes, I get the impression that most of the CISS systems I see at Amazon, Ebay, etc. are poorly-made and not well supported. Most seem to get only about a 50% satisfaction rating. Since I print every day (though not huge volume) I need something reliable that I won't have to be troubleshooting all the time. The tubes also worry me -- the more moving parts, the more potential trouble, it seems to me. So, my first question is this: Based on the experience of members in this forum, am I likely to have less trouble (i.e. misprints, malfunctions, etc) with re-fillable cartridges versus the typical CISS? I'd rather spend time refilling cartridges than constantly troubleshooting problems. Thoughts on refillable cartridges versus CISS?

Forgot to mention: on the WF-7710, I'll be printing almost exclusively full color prints on 13x19 sheets of Canon SG-201 "Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss" which, according to the package, is 69 lb, 260gsm, 10.2 mil, 0.26 mm. Used this paper with my old WF-7510 for years with great results.
 
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Ink stained Fingers

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I don't think those Chinese CISS systems are poorly made, I ordered quite some refill cartridges from there for various printers including a WF-7110, including CISS hardware. The problem is not so much with the hardware but with two aspects - the support, detailed instructions for installation incl. some answers to questions like - what is wrong - cyan is not printing - instructions for priming the cartridges since there are a few different ways depending on the cartridge internals, and you most likely won't get much support if something goes wrong - e.g. the printhead carriage gets entangled with the tubing etc. It's much more the installation and operational aspects you need to fix yourself basically. There are quite some Youtube videos which can give you some guidance, but they won' help you with your problem. So rather be cautious and just go for refill cartridges to avoid you quite some possible hassle unless you find a supplier which can give you full support -e.g. with the installation and start up. When it comes to refill cartridges only I barely had any problems with them - I had one case that a spring was broken of a spring loaded valve at the cartridge outlet, and I had a case that the datecode of one chip was much older than the chips of the other color cartridges which the printer firmware was rejecting. I had several printers running with a CISS, R265, R800, for years w/o problems until one tank was leaking - after lots of years. I'm now running Epson priners with a built-in CISS - L310, L1800, L382, L805 and similar which did not give me any issues so far.
Once you have a CISS working there is no operational difference to the use of refill cartridges, you still have to reset cartridge chips , there are some different options available - e.g. one reset button for all , I hve not tested them all.
I rather would look for refill cartridges and a resetter which allows you to refill and reset them before you actually run out of a particular color, and you are saving cleaning cycles. Please watch - there are resetters for the cartridges and a separate model for the waste ink box.
 
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eppyson

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Ink stained Fingers, thanks. I'm going to start with refillable cartridges for my WF-7710. Is it true that dye-based inks are less prone to clogging? Can you (or anyone else) recommend a brand of INK, keeping in mind that I'm printing on semi-gloss inkjet paper, and my priorities are vibrant colors, smudge-resistance and fade-resistance? Thanks again for your help.
 

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You have the choice between 3rd party dye inks by local suppliers, most will get them from Far East, with unknown fading performance. Inktec inks are well known, their inks are offered at budget prices but if it comes to fading their inks don't perform better than other no-name inks. You can alternatively use the original Epson inks which are sold with the Epson ET-7700/7750 printer, these inks are called Epson 106 in Europe but may have another number in other regions. These inks are the best you can get.
You mention 'vibrant colors' - that depends more on your paper choice than you may think, you can have wide variances between papers - and the same ink - in respect to the acheivable gamut/color space you can acheive.
Clogging - yes , you can explain technically that dye inks may clog less than pigment inks, but it is just impossible to say - you can keep your printer idling for x weeks with pigment inks and 2x weeks with dye inks. Since it appears that you are printing quite regularly there should not be a problem.
Try to get a cartridge resetter as well, this allows you to refill cartridges before they are finally empty, and a print stops in the middle of the sheet, you can refill more cartridges at the same time - before the printer stops - and you reduce the number of cleaning cycles induced by the cartridge change/reset.
Every refill cartridge needs some priming before the first use - I take a syringe, push it into the ink outlet and pull the air out until the ink is flowing; you only need to do that once.
 

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You can alternatively use the original Epson inks
Yeah, I was wondering about that. I looked at the Epson ET-7700/7750 ecotank printers you mentioned, and it says that they take the Epson T512 refill bottles. So, do you know from experience that these T512 bottles (or the 106 equivalent in Europe) will work on an Epson WF-7710 using refillable cartridges? Just for my own understanding, are bottled refill inks universally interchangeable within a certain manufacturer -- or will different Epson printers require a particular viscosity/formulation/etc that is unique to only a limited set of inks?
 

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are bottled refill inks universally interchangeable within a certain manufacturer
I'm cautious to make such statements or believe those by 3rd party ink suppliers in a general sense, but we have here an easier situation. Switching inks has several aspects - one is the more technical side - physical properties , and dye ink colors are most likely somewhat different to pigment inks in respect to the black level and overall color space/gamut. This is controlled by the driver together with the firmware that you get the colors you expect. If you change inks from one type to another - of which the driver is not aware of - you probably get some color shift in the printouts. You are most likely able via the driver with the extended color settings, or you better get a icm profile made for your ink and paper combination.
But it's more tricky when it comes to 3rd party inks - I have seen some effects with dye inks that they slightly change the nozzle print over time deflecting some nozzles, an effect which gets cleaned away again with Epson dye inks, in this case Epson 664 for the L310. So it's not an issue in this case of dye vs. pigment inks but Epson dye inks vs. a 3rd party dye ink.
Epson is using a print mechanism since a long time - probably 10+ years, with 180+3x59 nozzles, not much, that's one for entry level printer models - e.g. the WF-2010W, lots of XP home office models, L310, L382 and lots more L-type tank system printers, and ET-2750 etc Ecotank models. And you find that some of these - with the same print mechanism and printhead - use 4x Durabrite pigment inks, other models 4x dye inks and some a combination of a pigment black and CMY dye colors - ony the driver is different to take care of that. These printers run with 3pl min droplets - very similar to the WF-7xxxx printers - o.k. - they just have more nozzles for a faster printing speed.
I'm running Epson printers with dye inks or pigment inks as well on those for which it's not the standard ink type.
And I was running dye inks in a WF-7110 for a while without any hiccups.
The 106 ink bottles require some force to unscrew the top. And be aware that there is a 2nd black - a pigment ink for the ET7700 - Epson 105 in Europe


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eppyson

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Ink stained Fingers -- thanks very much. I'm learning alot and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom and experience. I'd like to be able to stick with the quality of Epson brand inks, and so it sounds like I should pursue the idea of using 502 replacement bottles with refillable cartridges in my WF-7710. I assume there is still a significant savings over using the standard OEM cartridges.
And I was running dye inks in a WF-7110 for a while without any hiccups.
This was the Epson 106 (or 512 equivalent) dye ink you were using in the WF-7710? Were you using the standard Epson 7710 driver? Any advice about settings, considering I'm printing on semi-gloss inkjet sheets?
 

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yes, I was using the 106 ink; I'm not familiar with paper choices in your driver, but there is most likely an entry for semi-glossy papers, try it, but explained above - you may observe a color shift. I'm doing my own color profiles , that's actually the first thing I do before I start using a printer with this or that ink or paper.
 

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be aware that there is a 2nd black - a pigment ink for the ET7700 - Epson 105 in Europe
Yeah, so the Epson 512 four-pack includes CMY and "Photo Black." Then, separately, you can buy just 512 Black. Is the "Photo Black" the dye-based, and the regular "Black" pigment-based?
 
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