Canon IP6700d and CIS system?

[Xalky]

So far refilling the OEM cartridges is simple enough. I just did one. I think you said that it's best to fill them all once one needs to be filled. Is that best?

 

[websnail]

Wouldn't it be better to use an OEM cartridge and affix some hose barbs to the top of the cartridge?. That way you don't have to mess with moving the chips over to the new cartridges. I could also seal the vent in the OEM cartridge which would essentially make it airtight.

That's essentially what I do...

I decided to build maintained CIS systems for some client schools and myself and done pretty well with it using the OEM carts, some fixtures obtained from medical suppliers (think samples ) and tubing obtained from a CIS manufacturer.

I can see that the reservoirs,and hose might be difficult to obtain, but you're telling me that a 4oz bulk ink bottle would work just as well.

I've found this to be the case but that's using OEM cartridges rather than spongeless.. As Mikling pointed out with this more detailed post, there's a lot to the flow, reservoir, etc.. issue

Hoses? Where could I get the right hose?

Depends where you are but I'm guessing the USA in which case MIS do it... but if you're up for a trade I'd be happy to send you some hose and the fittings if you are happy to write up a "How to" for the 6700.

It seems to me that you want the cartridge in the printer to pull a vacuum as the ink is used up so that it can pull ink from the reservoir. Is that correct? Along those lines, you want the reservoir to allow air intake at the top to replace the lost ink. Is that correct?

It's not so much a vaccum as ink being used so it needs to replace it.. The ideal being that ink from the reservoir is drawn in and not air.. You also want to be sure you don't end up with a syphon effect (ie: free flow) but that's avoided by ensuring the ink level in a non-pressure balanced reservoir system never goes above the printhead level.

The system must be sealed starting from the printhead-cartridge seal all the way back to the reservoir output so as not to pull in air from the outside and to maintain a vacuum, or at least equal pressure such as would be found in a siphon system. Is that correct? Now, it's apparent to me why the seals at the printhead-cartridge is critical. Leakage there will cause all the ink in the cartridge to leak out as it gets replaced with air. It would also break the siphon between the reservoir and the cartridge.

Pretty much.. With Epson cartridges and printheads it's easier because the design allows the equivalent of 2mm+ of cartridge rim to rubber contact all the way round, it does that by pushing the ink post up like a nipple into a rubber sealed hole in the cartridge. No seal problems at all...


I think Mikling covered most of the tech stuff but to answer some of it with my experience of Canons.

1. I've got 6x ip4200, 4x MP500, 1x MP830 and even an older iP4000 with working CIS kits
2. All work fine with some very low profile elbow fittings, regular bottles (fitted with dip tubing for ink and vent holes in the lid), some pretty small bore tubing 1/16" ID

The only problems I've had to date revolved around the printhead seal issue which I've gotten down to the point where I've got some silicon sheet coming .5mm and 1.0mm thickness to create my grommets from... and a bad batch of yellow ink which clogged the printhead and which I'm talking to my supplier about (yes it is I.S. ink so I'm chasing the issue).

I've got a LOT of troubleshooting tips on my own forums which I've recorded along the way so feel free to browse and/or suggest as you go.



As to leaving the vent hole in your cartridge, I don't think that's possible... It certainly isn't something I would see working although I can't give you the tech rational on it.. just gut instinct.

 

[mikling]

Now wouldn't it be easier to just gather a bunch of older cartridges that you already have, rig up a gang refill station and refill a bunch of the same color all at once at once ...boom boom boom. That's the KISS principle and it's proven. You might want to think about reviving your old printer with a new head.

Or even easier yet would be to get a vacuum pump, make a vacuum chamber and refill with that. you could get perfect refills each and every time just sealing the vent hole, standing your cartridge in a tray, apply vacuum, feed ink into tray and then release vacuum.... lift from try. The OEM seal remains, not one hole punched.
Total time 30 seconds to 1 minute.
vacuum chamber is easy to make.... one sheet of plexi 1/4" and up, inverted plastic or acrylic jar, home depot rubber roof flash for a sealing gasket. a few fittings and you're good to go. Vacuum pumps can be found for good prices on Ebay. I have two.

 

[Xalky]

Now wouldn't it be easier to just gather a bunch of older cartridges that you already have, rig up a gang refill station and refill a bunch of the same color all at once at once ...boom boom boom. That's the KISS principle and it's proven. You might want to think about reviving your old printer with a new head.

Or even easier yet would be to get a vacuum pump, make a vacuum chamber and refill with that. you could get perfect refills each and every time just sealing the vent hole, standing your cartridge in a tray, apply vacuum, feed ink into tray and then release vacuum.... lift from try. The OEM seal remains, not one hole punched.
Total time 30 seconds to 1 minute.
vacuum chamber is easy to make.... one sheet of plexi 1/4" and up, inverted plastic or acrylic jar, home depot rubber roof flash for a sealing gasket. a few fittings and you're good to go. Vacuum pumps can be found for good prices on Ebay. I have two.

I have an automotive manual vacuum pump . Can you post a link or picture of the plexi/jar setup. I'm real interested in that. Show me!! I like the idea of not punching holes. I'm not clear on the vacuum method of filling. Pictures would be great.

BTW: you guys are great.

Xalky

 

[mikling]

To fashion a vacuum chamber is really simple. Take a sheet of plexiglass...... that is your base.
Now find a jar or bottle that is strong enough. You can go to Dollarama, housewares, Ikea etc. That will be your bell jar.
Now using a drill bit made for plastic... don't use a standard drill bit, you can then drill a hole into the area that the inverted jar will cover. Affix a tube that leads into the chamber and seal that with adhesive that will work on both hose and acrylic. Hard plastic cement will bond it.
Now just make a sealing ring that makes an airtight seal between the plexi sheet and jar.

Make another hole that will allow you to feed ink into the tray in the chamber.

So basically it's just two holes leading into the chamber one is to pull air from the chamber and the other is to allow ink to be fed into the tray holding the carts.

Here's the principle. When you apply like 25inches of vacuum, you basically expand the air inside the cartridge. When you release the vacuum, this bubble inside the cartridge shrinks and pulls the ink into the whole cartridge. Of course you'll need to seal the required orifices to direct where the ink will be pulled from.

Here is where the originality comes in. On the unchipped cartridges, you'll probably have empty tanks to refill but with chipped cartrdiges, the tanks won't be empty. So if you stand up chipped cartridges to be refilled when you start the vacuum, the remaining ink will be pushed out of the tank and start bubbling and make a mess!

Now here's my patent and this is my public disclosure for refilling the chipped cartridges. Seal the ink outlet and invert the cartridge to be refilled. That way the remaining ink in the tank is at the bottom and the ink tank outlet to the sponge is at the top. So when you apply the vacuum the remaining ink doesn't get pushed into the sponge but remains in the tank. Now when you flood the tray with ink and release the vacuum, the shrinking air in the cartridge will suck ink into the cartridge through the vent holes. Or if you prefer, make a couple of tiny tiny holes to evenly distribute the ink above the sponge side.

Now if you still need a diagram after this disclosure you need a spanking as a trained Mech.

To make things neater, you might want some luer fittings and valves these are precision medical type fittings with perfect seal characteristics. I have a good supply of them. Email me and I can sell you the pieces you'll need, I have valves, bulk head fitting that will allow a good connection through the plexi base. I haven't made one yet but with my acquisition of an i9900. I will.

One issue that has not been mentioned about the CIS is peak pressures and why damping is a necessity. This is the root of air seal problems because a normal cartridge never sees extremely high pressures/vacuum but with a CIS it could. I'll leave that hint for others to figure out the rest. Additionally if you look at how Canon makes an air seal it is fundamentally different from Epson....... the finer details only gearheads will see.
Cya

 

[Xalky]

I didn't realize this was a patent pending idea. We can discuss over e-mails if you'd like.

 

[Grandad35]

Now here's my patent and this is my public disclosure for refilling the chipped cartridges....

You might want to check the "prior art" - e.g.:
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkrefill.php

 

[mikling]

Yes, but mine is inverted and does not make a mess like your's does!

The unique aspect being inversion and elimination of bubbling. Especially critical for CLI cartridges which will be topped off.

 

[Xalky]

I think we're going off topic, so I'm gonna start a new thread in the refilling section.

Xalky

 

[mikling]

Xalky sounds like you're a car guy. Think "extractors" when looking at the inkjet. Second, think about how vacuum varies inside your intake when you step on the throttle now think CIS. .... and what about those periodic cleanings that all printers do while printing, what exactly does that persistaltic pump generate and how high is the pumping pressure or head in a peristaltic pump....hmmmmm....

Now take your old printer out and remove the Canon seals, remove them, place a cartridge in there, notice something? look at the way the cartridge fits on the ink intake. Is there a Void of any sort? What happens to that void when there is vacuum. Hmmmmm....