Canon bottled dye inks

Ink stained Fingers

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I have shown above that the gamuts of the inks under test don't vary so much on the same paper - the Koala Glossy 240gr in this case.

I'm now comparing how the gamuts look for the same ink - Epson 106 - on the 2 different papers in this test - the Koala cast coated paper and a Ebay Glossy 240 PE/RC paper

Gamut-2.jpg


The gamut for the PE paper is wider into the green - cyan - blue range - with the green line in the above image, the gamut on the Koala cc paper is smaller.

This is about the same situation for all other inks - their gamut is similarly wider on the PE paper than for the cc paper. This is an effect I'm observing with about all PE papers - their gamut is wider than on a comparable cast coated paper. These PE papers are typically more expensive - specifically the OEM papers by Epson or Canon. But it's not just the gamut which makes a difference with these papers - the gloss is more uniform on the PE papers and their feel with the non-paper like backside is different, and the unprinted paper white looks different as well.

When you look into online shops for papers and printer consumables you will regrettably not always find information about the papers which are offered - whether they are cc or PE type papers. You can go by the price - cc papers are priced more at the budget level - e.g. betwenn 5 ct to 20ct for a A4 sheet , prices for PE papers are about starting at 20ct going up to 1 € , the Aldi/Sihl PE type paper is not on the market anymore since years by Aldi directly, it was running at 16ct in the online Sihl store recently. But it is quite possible these days that prices will go up - paper shortage - price hikes for raw chemicals etc.
 
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Ink stained Fingers

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I stopped the last fading test 2 days earlier because of adverse weather conditions - it's 12 days of exposure - not 2 weeks. But the results are evident


Fading-3.jpg


the top line is printed with the Epson 106 inks, the bottom line with the InkTec E0010 inks , it turned into a nice milk chocolade brown, the prints with the other inks are very similar. The E0010 ink is specified for use on a range of Epson 4 color home printers with a dye black, including various L- and ET- series Ecotank-printer models with the 664 inkset.
Give me some more time to get some numbers together to show how the inks in this test rank to each other.
 

Ink stained Fingers

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These are the cumulated and averaged color shifts of the listed inks on 2 papers - PE/RC and cc type -

Fading-4.jpg


The Epson 106 ink serves as a reference here, there are other OEM inks with similar performance - Canon GI-53 - HP 31 tested earlier in this thread and last year in detail.

The other inks show a somewhat similar performance overall - the Canon GI-51 is as good - or bad - as the other non-OEM inks - with a strong dependence of the paper type. But please be aware that this is just a test of the listed inks - other inks of the same supplier may have a different performance, and there are plenty of inks in the InkTec or Octopus-office catalogues which makes it impossible to test them all. And there are many more suppliers of inks in every local market.

If longevity of your prints is not your concern - e.g. short term internet stuff - you may opt to use other 3rd party inks to substitute the GI-51 inks, and as well the GI-50 inks, with some even cheaper 3rd party inks with similar performance., and the same applies to the weak Epson 664 and 102/104 Ecotank inksets , you just need to decide which type of black ink you need - dye or pigment - for the replacement inkset e.g. with InkTec inks as tested here.
But again - there is no alternative to the above listed OEM inks if longevity matters.
 

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There is another effect which can be observed in this test - the optical brighteners are fading as fast as the regular inks.

This is a spectral plot of a paper white patch

OBA-1.jpg


Look at the left side at the wavelength of 430 nm, there is a spike up to a reflection of 1.1 or 1.2 - the red or violet curves. These show the paper response under different levels of UV light - measurement conditions M0 or M1.

The same patch looks like this after the exposure of 12 days

OBA-2.jpg


The red and violet curves have dropped to about 0.9 , most of the UV effect is gone , the green line shows the paper response without any OBA effect.

And how much difference does this make numerically :

OBA-3.jpg


There is a delta E of 6.7 for the paper white point before and after outside exposure, the luminance is just affected by a difference of 1.5, but the b-color value changed from -10.73 to -4.41 , that is a shift from a clear blue-white to an almost neutral white, and this is directly visible. This directly shows the problem with profiling when the paper white point is shifting around over time that much.
 
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BornHappy

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Ink stained Fingers,​

This is really interesting thread. And seems one knows what he is doing.
Just not all is easy to grasp for newbie like me.

Would these inks you mention be compatable for any Canon Bubble Jet?
(I got old lady, Canon ImagePROGRAPH PFI-600 plotter., (nozzles are 4p.. size) And in search for +/-good lasting bottle inks for printing on canvas and photopaper.

Also,
Have you heard of Ukrainian inks DCTeck and WWM ? They are cheap.
I found this article seems shady, but its says DCteck is ok ink, WWM not.
https://crashbox.ru/lt/peripherals/...ktec-or-ocp-color-rendition-without-settings/

Also talked to ink shop in Kiev and they are working full capacity and ready to send but at the moment has only WWM... Its tempting, as the price is like 1/3 or even less, and guy said many local print-houses uses DCTeck for artwork.... Just thought i give something back :) but as i know very little , its all i came up at this point :)
...Also found STS inks, sells in USA and Europe , but mixed reviews..

So from your article i grasp that InkTech are pretty good inks for the money (non OEM)
And paper matters more then OEM ink. Is that right ?

thank You for your analytic approach to all this - its interesting., when i will know more will be even more interesting :)
 
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Ink stained Fingers

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I'm not familiar with the Prograph IPF600 24" printer and the inks that printer is using, I just read that it prints with
reactive dye inks for textile and fabrics printing. My tests deal with dye inks for Epson and Canon desktop printers, and I would not extrapolate my findings to other types of inks without any testing.

If you are just looking for regular Canon refill inks you may have a look here

https://www.druckerpatronentankstel...s/Canon_Imageprograf_IPF/Imageprograf_IPF_600

So from your article i grasp that InkTech are pretty good inks for the money (non OEM)
I'm not classifying Inktec inks as pretty good, they perform far below the listed OEM inks, but their pricing may be attractive if longevity is not your concern - e.g. if you just print posters for the next week sales out action........but this does not imply 'good lasting'ink performance. Only a test would tell you. Let me just give you an example, there is an Epson T3100x, an Ecotank 24" printer with dye inks, I tested the inks of that printer , they are not very stable, that's inks no better than other 3rd party inks and do not match the Epson Claria inks in respect to longevity; this just should show that it is not simple to get reliable information without doing tests by yourself.

And paper matters more then OEM ink. Is that right ?
not more but significantly - you only can judge and compare ink performance in combination with the paper you are using, and there are wide variations possible with different ink/paper combinations.
 

BornHappy

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Thank you for your answers Ink stained Fingers,​

Many more to learn for me :)

Yes, info online seems vague and more like for office print requirements only. Or pay premium for OEM and dont bother, but still as you said, no guarantee... Well, seems I have to experiment and time will tell.
Danke ;) And good luck on your tests.
 

Ink stained Fingers

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Thanks for your comments...

Or pay premium for OEM and dont bother
it's worse than that - OEM's have inks in their portfolio which differ in their performance - but they don't tell you anything about that - Canon GI-53 inks are great - CAnon GI-50 or GI-51 inks are petty weak , same with Epson 664 inks .

Here is just an example how dificult it is to find out some relevant information about HP inks - OEM inks

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/fading-performance-of-hp-dye-inks.14679/post-127639

You are lost and left alone as a user
 

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Ink stained Fingers

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I contacted Hongsam to give me a name of a distributor in Western Europe where I can buy a dye ink test set for Epson printers, I didn't get a response so far.
 
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