After years of success, the German Refill Method didn't work!

[Nifty]

All good ideas and suggestions which I'll try.

I had the needle all the way into he tank side of the cart, and the cart was upside down. I'm not sure how or why the ink wicked back along the needle... it was very odd. I even tried fixing it by pushing the ink against the prism, backing it off the prism, rotating the needle, etc.

While the experimenting / engineering part of me would love to figure out the exact cause, the impatient and "I've got other things to do" side of me just says, "Ah well, I'll just use a new virgin cart and worry about figuring this all out later."

Next time it happens though, I will try to narrow down some of the variables. The one that I know for sure is a factor is the age of the cart / number of refills I've already done.

 

[stratman]

Sounds like the sponge was rapidly wicking the ink from the spongeless side. Could have been some positive pressure inside the spongeless side causing the ink to traverse to the sponged side more rapidly than ordinarily anticipated. Maybe the channel that the needle travels in on its way to the spongeless side is on the larger side.

The good thing is there were no leaks and the cartridge performs as expected otherwise. I'll try to remember to watch what happens to the ink along the needle next time I refill. Depending on how "dry" the sponge is, and after I rest the cartridge in the upright position for a minute or so following the initial fill step, the ink level in the spongeless side goes down within seconds, and air bubbles appear as the spongeless side's atmospheric pressure equilibrates from the loss of ink volume.

 

[Nifty]

Well, the problem continues. As you can see in the video below, every time I squeeze the bottle ink travels out of the end of the needle and is wicked / pushed back along the needle and into the sponge area causing two problems:

1) Ink comes out the exit port
2) Ink is slowly pushed into the main sponge and then eventually bubbles out of the air maze

NOTE: It's hard to tell in the video, but the end of the needle is pushed against the air level prism and then slightly backed off of it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP6SQeUCyoE[/youtube]

 

[stratman]

Well, the problem continues. As you can see in the video below, every time I squeeze the bottle ink travels out of the end of the needle and is wicked / pushed back along the needle and into the sponge area causing two problems:

1) Ink comes out the exit port
2) Ink is slowly pushed into the main sponge and then eventually bubbles out of the air maze

NOTE: It's hard to tell in the video, but the end of the needle is pushed against the air level prism and then slightly backed off of it.

Good video explanation of your problem.

I don't see the needle tip in the spongeless side. The needle tip cannot be under/within the sponge when trying to refill or it results in the problems you describe, except for slight topping off as you withdraw the needle from the cartridge. You need at least 2 inches or 50 mm in length.

Flush the cartridge if the proper length needle with the needle tip confirmed in the spongeless side during refilling does not resolve the leaking.

 

[pharmacist]

Flushing the cartridge is the solution. Drain the sponge by blowing the air maze to force down the ink, so the upper sponge will be clean again and refill again and -like stratman has said- use needles that are long enough, so at least 2 inch/50 mm.

 

[The Hat]

What I can see clearly from your video Rob is the needle is not shoved far enough into the reservoir area.

When its pushed up against the prism (not hard) and cant go any further
then inject your ink and see if that way works any better for you.

Try this method before you go to the trouble of flushing out the ink and starting again.
My two cent worth..

 

[Grandad35]

Rob,

I have been experimenting with a modification of this refill procedure, and have seen exactly the same problem that you described. I can guarantee you that the needle is fully into the ink chamber (I can see the tip).

IMHO, when the ink chamber won't accept ink the problem is that there isn't an exit path for the air that must be displaced when the ink is injected, and the ink is pushed back into the sponge instead of dropping into the empty chamber.

Before refilling, try lightly tapping the cart upside down on the table to allow the needle to open a small air space around it when it is inserted.

I am also trying to see if the problem may be that the sponges were previously overfilled and the grooves along the side of the sponge aren't available for the air to escape.

A third possibility is that the needle may need a slight bend at the tip so that the ink isn't injected against the plastic surface, where the surface tension could keep the ink at the top surface, allowing it to be pushed back into the sponge by the exhausting air. Obviously, the needle would have to be rotated with the bend against the plastic when the needle is inserted, then rotated down when refilling. Note that I am using blunt needles, and the problem may be that sharp needles would perform the same function.

Note that since I have modified the needle insertion path I wasn't really ready to discuss this until I found the source of my problem, but when I saw that I wasn't the only one who sometimes encountered this situation (some refills go perfectly, and some are complete messes), I decided to throw in my rather limited experience prematurely.

 

[jimbo123]

rob

nice video !

1. first make sure the tip extends into tank side, for CLI8's if using a 2" needle it should be all the way in, except for backing off the prism a small amount.

2. looks like the sponge side may be over saturated
a. draw some ink out of the sponge side(quick)
b. flush the cart(not so quick)

this happened to me once, i just used negative pressure with a squeeze bottle to draw some ink out, can also use a syringe. been working fine 2 years later.

J

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Printers: Canon MP830, IP4500, MX700, MX860, MX870, MP980
Method: German Durchstich Method
Ink: Hobbicolors ink, PMT-BK, UW8
Misc: Squeeze bottles - so much easier than syringes

 

[mikling]

The issue is that the sponge is saturated with ink. Remove some by placing the needle tip in the sponge area and bring out some. ink You could also as a shortcut use a thinner gauge needle. This will pose less pressure against the sponge and possible air to exit easier. With he CLI-8 you can comfortably remove ink until the sponge changes complexion. When finished refilling, you can re saturate with the needle in the sponge area to replace some removed.

Finally if at this point, you may be running into the risk of forcing ink into the maze. You should seal off the maze exit to prevent ink from entering.

 

[stratman]

Six opinions not all concurring. This may be less an X-File and more Blind Men and the Elephant