A new way to fill

[PeterBJ]

Hi ghwellsjr

I wonder if I got the links messed up trying the Word-Link button, or if it just is the link to the Danish Google translate site that is the problem ? The link to the original russian site is here : http://master-print.info/?art=35 . I hope that shows a lot of pictures. You will then have to do the Google translate yourself, as my link dosn't seem to work properly. The subject of the site is various methods of refilling PGI-5/CLI-8 carts, some very creative.

You are absolutely right about drawing 10 ml of air out of a cartridge with 10 ml of air in it only removes half of the air, so at most 5 ml of ink will be sucked into the cartridge and the process will have to be repeated many times. Out of curiosity I actually made a simple set-up similar to the Russian idea and tested it with a flushed BCI-6 cartridge and water instead of ink. It took about 10 operations of drawing air out and letting ink in, and I had to disconnect the syringe and squeeze air out several times. I finally got the cart filled, but it was very inconvenient and it could have been very messy if I had used ink for the test. Here is a scan of my clone of the Russian set-up http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/uploads/6881_scan10003.jpg

The bottom fill test was an answer to ThrillaMozilla's question in this post : http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=40309#p40309 . A YouTube video of bottom filling a HP 564 cart is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_319LYlfBY . I tested this method and found it was no good for a Canon cart, so I share your suspicion of bottom fill methods.

The relation between the bottom fill method and the vacuum fill methods described in this thread is that the vacuum fill methods also fill through the outlet, but with vent sealed, either by a jig or a simple piece of tape.

I hope the links work properly, they do when I test them in the preview.
Peter

 

[barfl2]

PeterBJ With regard to Youtube Video and HP 364/564 refill method I did this for some time but the Kit I had STATED only insert 3ml. It worked very well mess free, but I think was only internded for the standard Cart. I tried with the XL version but it did not work only leaked. The system probably only refills the sponge area. Trouble with the HP printer was every cart change prompted a long cleaning cycle and then you found another colour was low. So not a lot of good.

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/uploads/thumbs/5268_009.jpg This is a photo of the top of a IJT comptable cart which has the same labinrith and wells as the Canon in fact dimensionally is identical. but single sponge and very soft sponge output sponge and it works reasonably well but is inclined to ink starvation. I expect patent considerations stop them going too far

barfl2

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I have used this type of vacuum filling with the InkTec apparatus for HP 564, and I'm pretty sure what is described in the videos will work, as long as they take certain precautions that they omitted. I'm neither endorsing it nor not endorsing it. I'd say it's experimental, but it may actually be a good way to get air out of the sponge.

I used it successfully in tests, and was able to immediately fill and drain a cartridge (slowly with a towel) with the correct amount of ink. I talked about doing this a long time ago in several posts, but you guys didn't much like the idea, so I didn't report further. I used it on HP564 cartridges (non-XL, sponge only), but I have no doubt that it can be used for the larger, XL cartridges, as the video proves.

I think you all understand it pretty well, but I can summarize it, and maybe add a couple of details.


1. The cartridges must not have any unsealed holes except for the vent and outlet. You need to seal the (serpentine) vent while filling. You probably will not be able to seal it perfectly, so you may have to clean it afterwards. I drew a little air through it, then cleaned the outside of the cartridge with distilled water, and drew a couple of drops back through the vent to clean it.

2. To fill completely, you will have to evacuate more than once. You will need to cycle at least two or three times or more to fill completely. Don't press on the plunger. Just evacuate and let the syringe pull itself in.

3. Figure out which side should be up. During the evacuation stroke, you want the air side up, i.e., you want air to feed through the opening between chambers. During the fill stroke, you want ink down (so it can run from the syringe).

4. Watch out! You may end with the sponge overfilled. Using the syringe, you can remove a little ink from the cartridge (you need to know how much the sponge chamber holds), or you can drain the cartridge in the usual way, letting it drip, (I would THEN draw still a little more out).

5. I would let the whole think equilibrate for a while. How long? Darned if I know. 10 minutes? Half hour? 2 days? Make darned sure it's not going to drip.


Caveat: I haven't tried this with XL cartridges, but with HP564 cartridges, which have a sponge only, no ink chamber -- but I'm sure it will work. I haven't used ANY of these cartridges in a printer yet, as I don't just refill every day. Sorry, I also don't have a video for you, since the work is already done.

One other point re HP564/364 XL cartridges (and maybe similar Canon cartridges). The HP564 cartridge has an opening between sponge chamber and empty chamber. But this is on the same side as on the vent, whereas the XL cartridges have it on the same side as the outlet. Make sure you don't fill this empty chamber by accident--although there may not be much harm in doing so.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

The bottom fill test was an answer to ThrillaMozilla's question in this post : http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=40309#p40309 . A YouTube video of bottom filling a HP 564 cart is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_319LYlfBY . I tested this method and found it was no good for a Canon cart, so I share your suspicion of bottom fill methods.

Peter, I have used this successfully, but you have to be careful not to fill the vent. Sometimes you have to go very slowly, or vacuum fill, or clean the vent afterwards.

In any case, the InkTec equipment is sold by the manufacturer for filling sponges only. I suggested using it for vacuum filling the empty chambers (in the larger cartridges) on an experimental basis.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Especially the one where the guy is cranking up and down on the syringe like he's trying to unclog a toilet.... yeesh!

Where did you see that? I've been looking for that video for weeks.

 

[The Hat]

ThrillaMozilla

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lX62v6pFyI&NR=1
Look no further..

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Oh, that one. Thanks. There's a much better one somewhere that shows the flow of air.

 

[rodbam]

First off, if he gave you the impression that Canon's complicated air vent system is there just it won't leak in transport or that his modified compatible cartridges can just be popped "into the printer without having to remove plugs from the vent holes", you have been mislead.

I didn't get this impression from the Ross Hardie video, I know his cartridges need some work before we pop them in the printer. My assumption was my own as to why Canon have the covered maze to enable leak proof transport & easy installation.
It seems we don't have any facts as to why Canon have designed the air maze this way, we can only theorise. In your link Mikling said he's not seen any difference between a covered a non covered air way in operation but concedes there could be more evaporation from the open one. At the low cost of our refills & the quick rate we empty the cartridge would evaporation be a problem?
So far for me the covered air maze has been a problem when I don't refill properly whereas with an open air maze I wouldn't have any worries about ink drying & blocking the air exchange with a sub standard refill technique. Mind you all this could be a mute point for me now as I think I have the correct refilling technique to not push ink out of the air maze any more, fingers crossed

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Rodbam, you can always cover the vent with tape, leaving only the intended opening, and it will retard evaporation much better than a totally open vent.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Now that I have taken time to watch Ross Hardie's video, I see that he has some incorrect ideas. ...First off, [he recommended] ...disabling Canon's air vent system designed to prevent drying out of the ink in the cartridge. ...Secondly, at around 13 minutes into his video, he claims that you can refill through his new air vent hole while the cartridge is still in the printer and that the ink will eventually flow into and refill the reservoir.

Indeed. You need only a tiny pinhole to equalize air pressure (as long as it remains open), but if the top is riddled with big holes, you'd better expect some evaporation. Canon's design is there for a reason, even if you don't understand it, and it's best to keep it intact. The second is a whopper. You won't be able to fill the ink reservoir, but you could easily oversaturate the sponge and make a mess.