Noob to profiling: some tips

[beneix]

I have only ever profiled my displays, never my printer or scanner. Now I am thinking of dipping my toe into this field and am hoping for some advice.

I have read about the different devices, targets, ArgyllCMS etc. At least starting out, I want to do this on a shoestring budget, so my current plan would be:

1. Purchase an IT8 target
2. Use Vuescan to profile my flatbed scanner using the IT8 target
3. Use Vuescan (or ArgyllCMS) to profile my printer

Questions:
1. Because I am avoiding purchasing a colorimeter and planning to use the flatbed scanner for the profiling, I assume I need to start with a known IT8 target not printed out on my printer - is that correct?
2. I saw that @Ink stained Fingers wrote (10 years ago!) about not having any knowledge about how good the Vuescan profiling was; has any new experience of this emerged since?
3. Can I use ArgyllCMS (instead of Vuescan) with a flatbed scanner, either for the scanner or printer profiling stage?
4. Of course, an IT8 target may cost a good fraction of what a used ColorMunki would cost on the used market, so perhaps I could stretch to buying that device to improve over the flatbed scanner. Then I have another question: Is the ColorMunki still useable today with W10/W11?

 

[palombian]

... Is the ColorMunki still useable today with W10/W11?

Yes, the original Colormunki still works perfectly on WIN10/11.
Sadly since last month the software isn't downloadable anymore from Xrite (Photo, later called i1Studio), officially you should now buy a license from Calibrite (Profiler 3, about 50-60 $/€).
So try to find one with the install disk (or seek on archive sites).

 

[thebestcpu]

I have only ever profiled my displays, never my printer or scanner. Now I am thinking of dipping my toe into this field and am hoping for some advice.

I have read about the different devices, targets, ArgyllCMS etc. At least starting out, I want to do this on a shoestring budget, so my current plan would be:

1. Purchase an IT8 target
2. Use Vuescan to profile my flatbed scanner using the IT8 target
3. Use Vuescan (or ArgyllCMS) to profile my printer

Questions:
1. Because I am avoiding purchasing a colorimeter and planning to use the flatbed scanner for the profiling, I assume I need to start with a known IT8 target not printed out on my printer - is that correct?
2. I saw that @Ink stained Fingers wrote (10 years ago!) about not having any knowledge about how good the Vuescan profiling was; has any new experience of this emerged since?
3. Can I use ArgyllCMS (instead of Vuescan) with a flatbed scanner, either for the scanner or printer profiling stage?
4. Of course, an IT8 target may cost a good fraction of what a used ColorMunki would cost on the used market, so perhaps I could stretch to buying that device to improve over the flatbed scanner. Then I have another question: Is the ColorMunki still useable today with W10/W11?

Hi @beneix
Bottom line for me is you might be better off going the path of a colorimeter.

Here are some things to consider.
I am pretty sure that Vuescan can convert readings from scanning an IT8 target and create an ICC profile. Yet there a couple issues of which you should be aware
There are two types of IT8 targets. Regular and individually calibrated.

The regular targets are created in batch, and the Lab values provided for that IT8 target are based on a random sampling of some number of the IT8 targets in the processing batch. Which means there could be some variation of actual color in your IT8 target vs the Lab numbers you are provided. So you are starting with some level of error to begin with.

The IT8 targets (which are more expensive) are measured individually, and you are provided the Lab numbers for each path for that specific IT8 target.

The bigger concern I have is not with Vuescan specifically, but in combination with a particular scanner. The assumption of being able to have accurate color results is the ability to put the scanner in a known stable condition (e.g., no applied auto adjustments or compensations and no ICC profile applied), and that in all future scans you use that mode. That's because the measurement of the IT8 target is only suitable for the scanner mode in which it was measured, and only if that particular scanner mode does not have a single auto adjustment, so you can count on the scan to be consistent in its output for which to apply the ICC profile. Assuming the scanner has such a mode, after calibration, you basically use that mode with the created ICC profile.

So even if Vuescan is good software, it depends on the scanner having a mode without any auto adjustments, and you can use that mode for future scans. I am not convinced that all scanners have that mode, and I'm not sure whether Vuescan itself knows how to put the scanner in that mode for all scanners. It may be required that you check whether your scanner has such a mode and set it to that mode during ICC profiling.

That said, there is a way to see if the Vuescan ICC profile is consistent:
You scan the IT8 target with the scanner in the mode that creates the ICC profile.
Then, with the ICC scanner profile applied and using the same stable scanner mode, rescan the IT8 target and see how close your measured Lab values are to the values provided for the IT8 target. They should be pretty close if the calibration was done correctly and the scanner is not in autocorrect mode.

Of course, that experiment requires an IT8 target, and unless you have borrowed money, you are already out some money if it does not go well.

Finally, even if you go the Colorimeter route, your scanner needs to have, and you need to use, the no-auto-adjust mode for an accurate ICC profile and subsequent scans to achieve accurate measured color results.

Just some quick thoughts
John Wheeler

 

[pharmacist]

I suggest to purchase the CR30 colorimeter (actually a true spectrophotometer). I think the price would be almost the same as your IT8 target and much more accurate (on pair with Colormunki/i1Pro).

The one I have bought:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005007293964897.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.634a40cbwFZFGd&algo_pvid=769e54d7-46f1-4693-b71b-dceb6b077d1b&algo_exp_id=769e54d7-46f1-4693-b71b-dceb6b077d1b-4&pdp_ext_f={"order":"106","eval":"1","fromPage":"search"}&pdp_npi=6@dis!EUR!124.01!54.77!!!1000.86!441.99!@211b612817617280311826179edb0c!12000040095156823!sea!BE!0!ABX!1!0!n_tag:-29910;d:573720e8;m03_new_user:-29895;pisId:5000000187455237&curPageLogUid=njcvubsW6mD4&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:|x_object_id:1005007293964897|_p_origin_prod:

Choose the CR30 version (most accurate one)

 

[beneix]

I suggest to purchase the CR30 colorimeter (actually a true spectrophotometer). I think the price would be almost the same as your IT8 target and much more accurate (on pair with Colormunki/i1Pro).

The one I have bought:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005007293964897.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.634a40cbwFZFGd&algo_pvid=769e54d7-46f1-4693-b71b-dceb6b077d1b&algo_exp_id=769e54d7-46f1-4693-b71b-dceb6b077d1b-4&pdp_ext_f={"order":"106","eval":"1","fromPage":"search"}&pdp_npi=6@dis!EUR!124.01!54.77!!!1000.86!441.99!@211b612817617280311826179edb0c!12000040095156823!sea!BE!0!ABX!1!0!n_tag:-29910;d:573720e8;m03_new_user:-29895;pisId:5000000187455237&curPageLogUid=njcvubsW6mD4&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:|x_object_id:1005007293964897|_p_origin_prod:

Choose the CR30 version (most accurate one)

Thanks @pharmacist . I see you have been experimenting with the CR30, LAB, csv files etc. I started looking through that thread but didn't find out whether you have come to a stable method that works using ArgyllCMS+CR30 to profile a printer. The recent posts seem to suggest there are still some issues to resolve before it will work, is that correct?

I suggest to purchase the CR30 colorimeter (actually a true spectrophotometer). I think the price would be almost the same as your IT8 target and much more accurate (on pair with Colormunki/i1Pro).

The one I have bought:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005007293964897.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.634a40cbwFZFGd&algo_pvid=769e54d7-46f1-4693-b71b-dceb6b077d1b&algo_exp_id=769e54d7-46f1-4693-b71b-dceb6b077d1b-4&pdp_ext_f={"order":"106","eval":"1","fromPage":"search"}&pdp_npi=6@dis!EUR!124.01!54.77!!!1000.86!441.99!@211b612817617280311826179edb0c!12000040095156823!sea!BE!0!ABX!1!0!n_tag:-29910;d:573720e8;m03_new_user:-29895;pisId:5000000187455237&curPageLogUid=njcvubsW6mD4&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:|x_object_id:1005007293964897|_p_origin_prod:

Choose the CR30 version (most accurate one)

Thanks @pharmacist . Is there a lot of pfaffing involved in getting to the point where one can profile a printer with CR30? I get the impression there as a lot of Python wizardry and fiddling with the physical process of capturing, but perhaps there is a post I have missed in that other thread.

 

[palombian]

I would try to find a used Colormunki/i1Studio.
And start now by securing the install files before they vanish completely from the web.

 

[pharmacist]

Thanks @pharmacist . I see you have been experimenting with the CR30, LAB, csv files etc. I started looking through that thread but didn't find out whether you have come to a stable method that works using ArgyllCMS+CR30 to profile a printer. The recent posts seem to suggest there are still some issues to resolve before it will work, is that correct?

Thanks @pharmacist . Is there a lot of pfaffing involved in getting to the point where one can profile a printer with CR30? I get the impression there as a lot of Python wizardry and fiddling with the physical process of capturing, but perhaps there is a post I have missed in that other thread.

I will try to write a compact how-to manual how to create a printer target with the CR30 + ArgyllCMS + Python scripts (thanks to @micronica and others) if I have some time later this weekend

 

[beneix]

I would try to find a used Colormunki/i1Studio.
And start now by securing the install files before they vanish completely from the web.

Indeed. I don't suppose anyone here might have files to share via PM?

 

[pharmacist]

All the files can be found on the topic I started and can be downloaded there including the python scrips and the targets (247, 266, 270 (Letter) and the latest 300 patch target) and argyllcms can be found on the website of argyllcms.com.

Just do your work in finding the files.

 

[beneix]

All the files can be found on the topic I started and can be downloaded there including the python scrips and the targets (247, 266, 270 (Letter) and the latest 300 patch target) and argyllcms can be found on the website of argyllcms.com.

Just do your work in finding the files.

Sorry, I was referring to palombian's mention of the files for ColorMunki Photo, which have disappeared from the X-Rite web site.

If I do decide to go the CR30 route, I know there are lots of files in your other thread and I see you and others have done a lot of work to make the process less complicated. Next you just need to open your shop selling 3D-printed collars and guides!